Can we be honest about the need for affirmation?

You should be open and honest about who you are not over step the mark with others because you will be 'outed' for being the deceiving liar that you are.

The law that has encouraged this behaviour, and made it possible to legally obscure your true identity, is part of the problem. It helps no one. It doesn't help the person who is in constant fear of being 'outed'. It doesn't help the wider public who are deceived and /or forced to go along with the lie. It doesn't help the young people struggling with gender identity issues who are being coerced into a lifetime of deceit in the quest to be their 'true selves'.

It’s the dynamic that’s the problem, not he individual HCPs is what I think I’m trying to say.

Yes I agree the dynamic is the issue. And resolving it at that level removes the need to single out individuals- blanket policy on same sex providers is probably easier and fairer than case by case

No that’s a very good point - and I agree. I think both scenarios could be valid actually and it does show the power imbalance.

The patient has no idea if the HCP is acting in good faith and thus is under pressure regardless? Yes I think so.

Tbh I am uncomfortable with the entitlement to pretend you are the opposite sex and knowingly attempt to deceive everyone you interact with, which underpins the fear of being 'outed'.

How about you stop lying, pretending and deceiving eh?

Other people have the right to form boundaries and recalibrate them according to each other person's sex.

'Enjoying', feeling more 'comfortable', more 'yourself' and more 'authentic' is a very selfish justification for denying others their right to treat you according to their appropriate boundary.

You should be open and honest about who you are not over step the mark with others because you will be 'outed' for being the deceiving liar that you are.

I don’t think I’m disagreeing with that fortunate? That’s pretty much what I’m saying. That it shouldn’t ever get in the way of patient care, and any person who tries to push it in a ‘you must affirm me or I’ll kill myself’ way is not fit to practice.

A patient has the right to ask for a same sex HCP. Whoever is supervising would be wrong to then send that person a trans HCP when a single sex one was specifically requested.

No she shouldn’t. That works both ways. Female on female searching.

Again it’s using highly personal situations with potential to cause distress to push boundaries and make a point.

No one who does that is, in my opinion, a safe person to interact with.

It's also the other way round. What about women police officers, prisons officers, customs etc who have been requested as a female searcher by a Self ID or pre op trans'woman'. Should she be forced into it?

Need for affirmation should never, ever impact patient care. The patient is central, they are the one in a vulnerable position in all healthcare interactions.

I am highly suspicious of anyone using such scenarios to validate themselves or to push boundaries or make points. That is putting personal ego ahead of professional patient care.

I think everyone should be allowed to pursue a career in healthcare and patients should have a say in who they want their hcp to be. I always ask for a female hcp, so far I don't think I've encountered any trans women so can only say that theoretically speaking I don't oppose to being treated by a TW. All that I care about as a patient is that I have a choice and my choices are respected.

Hospital environment is slightly different though, you generally get whoever is available at the time.

Unless having melanin in her skin also confers a penis on that hypothetical black nurse, she's not a Schrödinger's Rapist potential threat to women. She will not be able to make a woman pregnant.

Also, there's a time and a place and an agent for challenging racism, and "in an examination room, during a smear test, by the black HCP" is not it. If I were black and working as a HCP, why would I want to be forced to treat a patient who hated me because of my skin colour and is going to be horrid to me and treat me like less than human when the work I'm doing could save that patient's life? It adds another burden to an already-marginalised person's life if they are required to treat someone who thinks they shouldn't be here. It's not the job of black people to fix racism. And TBH if a racist white woman [screencappers, be honest and take the full post, don't quotemine] refuses treatment unless the HCP is white, it's important that she still gets care [screencappers, take the full post, don't quotemine] and so if there is a white HCP available [screencappers, take the full post, don't quotemine] then she should get one, [screencappers, take the full post, don't quotemine] even though I would condemn utterly her racist motivation for wanting that. Sorry about all the square brackets, but I could totally see this paragraph being screencapped and trimmed and tweeted out of context as fake evidence that mumsnet are the evilz.

FYI there are circumstances when I can imagine a black person asking for a black HCP, e.g. for counselling after a racist incident, and I fully uphold their right to do this. This isn't about "how you identify" but "what you need to cope with how other people treat you".

Actually, toilets are helpful to this debate. They prove the need for validation.
If trans people didn't need validation they'd campaign for a third space.

The OPs original scenario is not particularly helpful as the transwomen I know would change jobs to avoid being put in this position.

The original scenario is what the thread is about. If you don't want to comment on that scenario, post on another thread or start your own.

I can well believe discussing the original scenario isn't "helpful" to your agenda, though.

Indeed. The gap between identity and reality is threatening. Deflect at all costs.

I would suggest to all feminists - including those who don't give a stuff who's holding the speculum at their smear test - to request, very specifically, a same-sex HCP for any intimate procedure. The common sense thing is for providers to assume such jobs are single sex only as default.

It would also help if the non-abusive trans people came to collect the abusive strand amid their number who would even think of applying for such a job. Interesting that Gibb would rather deflect to toilet-toilet-toilet than to confirm to us all they are not part of that abusive strand of trans people. Says a lot.

@SarahAr Who you personally know and how you believe they would react is irrelevant.
Claiming the situation given is 'not helpful is dishonest. Its a situation a woman was put into. It wasn't supposed to be helpful, it was factual.

Stop playing on women's socialisation to be nice, inclusive or helpful and engage honestly.

The issue is less about affirmation and more about not being outed

Sorry this was commented way way upthread but this gaslighting drives me nuts.
Being outed?

In the case of the patient requesting a female nurse when a TIM was sent, the patient knew they were male. They were "outed" just by arriving.
In the given example of a TIM using the male loos causing confusion for the men this is nonsense because they cause confusion to women by using the women's too. Women know they need to be polite and not say anything, but we do actually know a male when we see one.

It's not fair on women to be constantly expected to affirm another person's delusion.

I can well believe discussing the original scenario isn't "helpful" to your agenda, though.

The OPs original scenario is not particularly helpful as the transwomen I know would change jobs to avoid being put in this position. "Fucking toilets" are unavoidable for transwomen so a more useful scenario.

But the OP raised a specific scenario. This scenario has happened. It's not about you and the TIMs you know or whether you think it's "helpful". How arrogant. It would be polite to engage with that in addition to banging on about toilets for the millionth time.

Sarah would you like to answer the OP’s scenario instead of going on about fucking toilets?

The OPs original scenario is not particularly helpful as the transwomen I know would change jobs to avoid being put in this position. "Fucking toilets" are unavoidable for transwomen so a more useful scenario.