Can we be honest about the need for affirmation?

I would object to a TIM doing my smear because I don't want someone who covets or envies my genitals having anything to do with them. Creepy as fuck.

Bowlofbabelfish

But you ask for a woman you get a woman, just caz she presents as a man doesn't stop her being a woman. Where do you draw the line, I don't want a butch woman doing my smear, I don't want a woman with short hair. I can understand the issue if they were very masculine but they are very uncommon.

If you asked for a woman and were given a man with make up and a wig, that's a violation of your rights, because biology makes a woman, not outward appearances.

has it been said on this thread already that sexual assault is about POWER and not ATTRACTION? just that way back on page 2 Gibb tried the "what about if the hcp was a lesbian" tactic. i think PL off the telly said similar very recently.

i would consider it sexual assault if a woman was given a smear test by a male bodied person if they had explicitly requested a female bodied person and if that request had been heard but over-ridden with no discussion. i will be having a smear test later in the year (yay lucky me). i am going to tell the practice i only consent for a female bodied person to carry it out.

@GibbertyFlibbert

How would you feel about a male patient who requested a male HCP for an intimate procedure?

Do you feel they would have the right to refuse to he treated by a transman on the basis that the transman cannot know what it is like to have a prostate exam, for example?

noeffingidea
A woman's private parts are not an equal opportunity area.

Exactly! We have all meet many men who think that a woman's private parts should be an equal opportunity area

I think that Gib doesn't realise that the reason why there are so, so many MeTo stories is because all women above the age of 15 has at least one of those stories and many of us have hundreds and hundreds.

What Gib is spouting on this thread is A) very masculine B) very racist (Gibs sounds just like those a-holes who go on and on about how masculine they think Serena Williams is)

On a side note, if you asked for a woman to do your smear and a transman or none binary biologic female attended, I think it would be transphobic to refuse that person.

I would argue that the patients right not to be intimately examined by a man takes precedence. How could you justify this to, for example, a woman being examined for samples and injuries after a rape?

You couldn't have a blanket ban on men doing cervical exams or gynocology because there are loads of very good male gynecologists.

To clarify, I’m not advocating the removal of male gynaecologists. I’m saying that a woman should be able to refuse a transwoman for a procedure that she feels she needs a female HCP for. I’m specifically thinking smears etc.

There should be no direct or indirect pressure on the patient. Direct pressure would be having to ask the person to leave - that’s putting the patient in a vulnerable position. Indirect would be a general fear of this happening and not wanting to appear bigoted. So for example if they knew this was likely to happen at their surgery.

no woman should be in a position where she feels she HAS to consent to something she really doesn’t want.

And that is her right - to force any woman to be intimately examined by, or to search etc a male is unconscionable.

Fortunate I agree. It's not just favoured, it's government policy to deal with it on a case by case basis with a high bar.

You couldn't have a blanket ban on men doing cervical exams or gynocology because there are loads of very good male gynecologists. The solution we have is that women bothered can ask for a woman or can ask for a third party to be present.

The current system works fine. Transwomen being real women unquestionably and then entering nursing or gynocology (or transitioning after) is disrupting the exsiting system.

So there are two options, stop transpeople working in women's health or stop treating woman as bigots for saying transwomen are not real women and give them the right to ask for an actual biological female.

On a side note, if you asked for a woman to do your smear and a transman or none binary biologic female attended, I think it would be transphobic to refuse that person.

Yes I agree the dynamic is the issue. And resolving it at that level removes the need to single out individuals- blanket policy on same sex providers is probably easier and fairer than case by case

Exactly. This dynamic is what the single sex exemptions in EqA are for.

Although they are asking for some extra checks actually

Notts police have to accept self ID because it's illegal to ask for GRC

Checking whatvghey say about searches

Babel: re searching, I agree. The trans person will say it's assault to be searched by a male. I'm just envisaging the situation. Also I've heard about female officers who have been in the situation and had to do it. Will seek link.

There are also a small minority of people who push boundaries to force women into participation in a sexual fetish.

Since no one can reliably determine the difference between hurt feelings, AGP, or it being someone’s paraphilia, a blanket policy of ‘ask for a same sex provider, get one’ would seem to be wisest.

Placemarking

if non-validation is so awful that it can lead to suicide the it follows that positive validation would be extremely rewarding and fulfilling.

And we're supposed to believe that this isn't a mental illness.

Same.

They already breached two boundaries 1 womanhood 2 heading straight for work where women are at most vulnerable. These are huge red flags.

It seems off to me that TIMs would head straight for a job where women are vulnerable. Why? There's plenty other careers.

I've pinched this quote from another thread.
it is men who designed the hierarchy with themselves at the top, and it is men who are trying to create a new class of people who cannot be told no, and have been given the right to take priority over all others on the basis of how they identify.

This sums it up for me. We have created a situation were a group of people are allowed to dictate how people behave around them, even to lie to keep them happy. It makes no difference that individual TIM wouldn't put themselves into certain position, because a culture has been formed where it's impossible to say no anyway.

I asked for a certain female doctor a few weeks ago. I was told that the other female doctor in the practise was on long term leave and so Dr A was incredibly busy. If I had to have a female doctor it was roughly a month waiting list. I could see a male doctor the next week.

There are times women want a female to examine them. This is not unreasonable and should be provided. Likewise if a man wants a make HCP.