Can we be honest about the need for affirmation?

Let's not forget that 'transperson' is a polite euphemism for a person with a psychological disorder so severe that they feel they must pretend they are the opposite sex and try to get the rest of the world to play along with their charade or they feel suicidal.

It is not healthy or normal and patients are quite right to feel uncomfortable with HPCs with profound psychological disorders tending to them when they are vulnerable.

However, what I have tried to do many times on this thread, is to take the patients point of view because they are paramount in this situation.

Precisely. The purpose of healthcare is to tend to the wellbeing of the patient, not the HCP. The moment you lose sight of that you're a bit shit as a HCP, whatever your reason for doing so.

A trans woman working as a nurse is not coercive or sinister or creepy or anything else of that nature that has been said over the pages of this thread.

Well that depends on the individual.

But if the transwomans intentions are not sinister or for affirmation, then they should appreciate that them doing intermate exams put woman in a difficult position and many woman will not want a biological male doing intermate exams - and so the transwomen would be happy to not provide intermate care to woman.

A trans woman working as a nurse is not coercive or sinister or creepy or anything else of that nature that has been said over the pages of this thread. They are simply pursuing a career in something thar they are passionate about - helping people.

Validation is the reason many transgender identified males go into women's services. They say it themselves and you claiming it is not true is pointless.

What should we do about the trans HCP who act unacceptably?

The same thing that is done with ALL people who act unacceptably.. follow disciplinary action and strip this them of their right/ability to practice where necessary.. that’s not too much of a reach is it?

I am bowing out of this thread now.

What sex, rather.

Where I am smears etc are usually performed by a gyno rather than a nurse. I don't want to see a gyno who's a regular gender conforming man either, and I know I'm not the only one otherwise women requesting a woman to do those procedures wouldn't be an issue. Some women are find with males performing those procedures for them, but in general I think we'd be better off setting the default at "in general most women may prefer a female practitioner" for intimate procedures.

Every time I read Supermatchgame or one of the other TRAs trying to eradicate our rights to consent as they have done on this thread, they demonstrate just how dangerous some people in this movement are to women and children.

We still have no idea that sex either Supermatch or Gibb are because both of them use the term sex in rather baroque ways, but I think given that possibility that either or both may be female it brings up the fact that it's not just trans people themselves who're the problem, the group of female supporters are in many cases just as much of a threat to women and children as a group, in the same way that say Ann Coulter in the US is no friend to women as a group. There will always be women happy to throw other women under the bus, and in the TRA case those women are helping to escalate the situation by trying to position themselves as proof that women as a group are totally fine with any and all changes demanded.

If a transperson gives a shit about helping people they will stay the fuck away from jobs where their psychological disorder and confusing presentation to remedy it will potentially freak out people at their most vulnerable.

Gender Dysphoria is a mental illness. That doesn’t automatically make trans people a threat.

I have not negotiated women’s right to say no. I have agreed completely that women (or anyone) have the right to refuse treatment if they feel uncomfortable. I am WITH you on this. All I was expressing is that the level of insults on this thread was terrible.

So much for wanting respectful and open discussion.

NATALT

What do you propose to do about the ones who are, NatLuc, besides claim they do not exist?

We are talking about our experiences and our feeling using our words.

Stop telling women how to speak and telling us how we should feel.

A trans woman working as a nurse is not coercive or sinister or creepy or anything else of that nature that has been said over the pages of this thread.

Your disregard for documented cases where transgender identified males are all those things is telling.

Which is not what anyone was doing. If you can't prevent your knee from jerking that's your issue to deal with, not ours.

And posters on these forums don’t get to pass judgement and demonise all trans people either.

Can we please stop insinuating that all trans people have a ‘disturbed’ relationship with what other people’s bodies?! Sweet jeebers. It’s insulting. And frankly wrong.

It is a disorder to identify as transgender.
It is listed as a mental disorder.

STOP trying to negotiate women's right to say no.
STOP telling women we have to use the euphemisms you prefer instead of the correct terms.

Every time I read Supermatchgame or one of the other TRAs trying to eradicate our rights to consent as they have done on this thread, they demonstrate just how dangerous some people in this movement are to women and children. Anyone who does not respect someone's right to consent / maintain boundaries about undressing, nudity, personal touching, intimate care etc is a danger to others. They should not be allowed anywhere near people in vulnerable situations, (especially in Health).

You don't get to tell women what they may and may not be creeped out by, Nat.

FortunateCookie - A further issue is, as someone put upthread, the particular relationship that a transwoman has with the female body. This is also not an issue that a HCP who isn’t trans will have.

Can we please stop insinuating that all trans people have a ‘disturbed’ relationship with what other people’s bodies?! Sweet jeebers. It’s insulting. And frankly wrong.

We generally have a complex relationship with our OWN bodies. This does not mean we drool uncontrollably over other people’s. Cripes.

Can a patient object to having a trans person perform an intimate exam? Yes of course.

Should we, as a society, deal with the fact that this objection should not be viewed as being transphobic in and of its self? Yes we should.

Does that give most of the posters on this thread the freedom to spread vitriol and unbridled hate?! Hell. No.

A trans woman working as a nurse is not coercive or sinister or creepy or anything else of that nature that has been said over the pages of this thread. They are simply pursuing a career in something thar they are passionate about - helping people.

The race analogy doesn’t hold. A black female HCP is a woman. Rejecting her on the grounds of race would be racist.
A black male HCP could be refused on the grounds of being a man. That’s not racist.

There is a degree of vulnerability when having intimate procedures. The TIM creates a situation where the patient is put under pressure to consent so as not to appear transphobic. It also suggests a dynamic that is more to do with the TIMs need for validation than the safety, wellbeing or consent of the patient.

The Transwoman is a man. Please read the post by the practicing doctor above - she reiterated the need to put patient consent above all other factors. This is simply good clinical practice. Any patient can object to /remove consent for her doing an exam for any reason and she will comply.

It’s the same in the trials I run. Consent is ongoing and can be withdrawn for any reason at any time and legally must not compromise the care of the patient

Why the fuck do people keep equating black women with men? Black women are women!

Not want

I thought this describes perfectly why a woman might specifically want a TIM:

I would object to a TIM doing my smear because I don't want someone who covets or envies my genitals having anything to do with them. Creepy as fuck.