Why is misgendering a big deal?

@TERFragetteCity I agree in that situation that using a different pronoun is dangerous and shouldn't be allowed.

I think my experience is more with females who don't want to be called she/her so that's why I am more accepting but I see your point.

I just don't see the issue with using pronouns or names

Names, most people will use the name of the person that they have just been introduced to, won't they?

But take a man who was wanted for sex offences. He had escaped and was on the run. Instead of putting the word out that a male sex offender was on the loose, the story was a woman who sometimes dresses as a man should be looked out for.

It twists reality. That reality can be fatal to women. People need to just stop doing it.

And she's right. It's not the job of society, much less specifically of the female half of society, to maintain a collective lie in order to alleviate some people's dysphoria.

This. It shows up the narcissism of this movement. This isn't advocated for other psychological conditions, that we all pretend it's how it is in people's disordered perception.

A smart person in another thread said...

Mollifying people with this condition is not the job of the public. They need to find a more robust solution than the expectation of collective pretense

And she's right. It's not the job of society, much less specifically of the female half of society, to maintain a collective lie in order to alleviate some people's dysphoria.

@womanformallyknownaswoman @TERFragetteCity @thebewilderness

I was using my BDD as an example of how dysmorphia can present its self. I've been treated and I'm a lot better. My trigger has nothing to do with my gender. It's to do with skin imperfections and weight. In terms of harm I don't mean self harm I mean trying
to fix the imperfections which can result in me injuring myself or making myself ill. I didn't ask anyone to manage it I do that fine.

I just don't see the issue with using pronouns or names, if it helps someone accept themselves.

Why is it difficult to use the language a person needs to combat their dysmorphia? Imagine going through life being called the wrong name.

Most people will call someone the name they tell them.

If a man cannot leave the house without threats of what they will do to themselves or others, should someone identify them as a man...they need to not leave the house. As thebewilderness says, get some therapy. As for women, it doubles down on exactly WHY these men need to be avoided.

Luckily we're unlikely to ever see the day when women stop telling them to fuck off when they make those demands either.

I wonder if we will ever see the day when men stop telling women what to do, what to say and how to behave.

Well said thebewilderness

Gaslighting and DARVO on an individual, family, corporate and societal level always portrays women as "the problem" when they refuse to sacrifice their needs on the pyre for someone else's male ego

Raven88
It is not our job to manage your mental illness.

the incredible weight of lies women are required to tell to and about men on a daily basis to survive the hostile environment men have created is overwhelming.
Now you want to claim that women who refuse to obey you are responsible for what you do to yourself.
Those are traditional abuser tactic you are using. I suggest you get counseling as soon as possible.

Why is it difficult to use the language a person needs to combat their dysmorphia? Imagine going through life being called the wrong name.

I have BDD and if it's triggered then I can end up accidentally harming myself trying to fix it.

Thought by many in the field to also have a biological component.

Which there is ZERO evidence for. Until scientists can point out the biological etiology of gender dysphoria, your statement is BOLLOX.

*what do I use as an XX person with no gender identity?

Corpse.

Gender identity is part of human identity. If you are alive and conscious you have a gender identity - it is the sex you feel you are. The concept of yourself as a man or a woman.*

I don't FEEL I'm a sex. I AM a sex. What you're describing is completely subjective, meaningless and cannot be tested.

Female infants in certain countries can't change their feelings about their sex to stop them from being murdered for being of the FEMALE SEX class.

On the other hand, gender dysphoria can be categorized as it's a mental disorder where people have a delusion that doesn't correspond to the reality of their sex. IOW, a psychological disorder.

When you're a corpse you still ARE a sex.

Really good point.

What confuses me is that somehow hearing someone say TWs are men is triggering and causes them to self harm etc but apparently seeing a cock and balls every time they go to the loo is ok, because they’ve just convinced themselves it’s a ladycock and ladyballs. Convenient that.

It is generally about decency. If you refuse to accept people's gender identity, then you're usually transphobic, which means you contribute to large-scale transphobia such as medical denial or trans poverty.

Misgendering can be a contributor to suicide

Essentially, you're arrogant and close-minded,

I will not be threatened or bullied into using a pronoun that doesn't reflect material, biological realities. This is right out of the abuser play-book.

'I'm gonna kill myself if you don't do x, y, z'

'You're responsible for my poverty !'

The only arrogance here comes from ( mainly men) who've been socialized to think their feelings are the center of the universe and who have actually BEATEN women over this.

I'm not saying women should be forced to share spaces with men if they have an intense phobia of them. I'm saying that it would be beneficial for said women to try and overcome that phobia, because it's very very difficult to go through life avoiding men completely.

It's not a phobia, it's an entirely rational caution. Two women a week killed by men. Men with no label saying killer or abuser. Plausible men, nice men. So credible in fact that we fall in love with and marry them.

Then they kill us.

Not a phobia.

A statistically rational, evidential and almost universal vigilance around men, especially when we are in a vulnerable situation, naked, or with our knickers round our ankles, having a smear test, or in a prison cell, unable to escape.

Instead of suggesting that women overcome this wariness, by flatly denying it to protect the feelings of the very people who perpetuate it, might I suggest you direct your attention to the cause of it instead.

Heh. I realized I misread the OP's statement.

I think we'll have to talk about male supremacy and their socialization into masculinity in a patriarchal society that constantly bends to men's precious feelings.

I'm reminded of the Genderquake debate where gender identity didn't determine the amount of time speaking and the amount of times someone was interrupted.

Sex mattered though.

I’m really trying to understand why not affirming someone’s identity is that big of a deal.

Because womanhood and girlhood is NOT an identity. It's a biological and material reality that forms the basis of our oppression. It's the entire basis of the FEMinist movement.

Men's feelings and need for validation of their fantasy identities NEVER trump women's and girl's rights.

Absolutely nothing demonstrates the co-morbidity of Gender Identity Disorder with narcissistic personality disorder quite like a trans thread on MNs FWR

YY.

This is still going? With exactly the same "you're big meanies" from rose and "the GRA is magic and alters reality" from Gibby? Really?

Absolutely nothing demonstrates the co-morbidity of Gender Identity Disorder with narcissistic personality disorder quite like a trans thread on MNs FWR

It does indeed.

Absolutely nothing demonstrates the co-morbidity of Gender Identity Disorder with narcissistic personality disorder quite like a trans thread on MNs FWR.

Same here, Science. I'll identify as painfree, young and in good health. That'd be nice. And you plebs can all call me "Gorgeous" - or alternatively "Genius". I'm not unreasonable, you see. I've given you a choice.

Transparent is a real parent..

Does the whole devalue argument creep anyone else out? Cuz it is men who designed the hierarchy with themselves at the top, and it is men who are trying to create a new class of people who cannot be told no, and have been given the right to take priority over all others on the basis of how they identify. This can vary from one day to the next, so failure to submit to that days identity presentation can get the lesser people in trouble.

This sums it up for me.