Why is misgendering a big deal?

Feminism is about equality.

That's MRA talk. Feminism is about the liberation of women and girls.

I am here to protect women and feminism

what??!! so there we have it again - we're the wrong type of women because we won't comply - oh dear /s

We don't need any of your protection or your version of feminism - why would you think that? Sounds very much like excessive control & male entitlement to me

Feminism is about equality. As soon as we move from that, it is no longer feminism. Trans women are women.

Yes, I started out struggling with trans people who don't get surgery but then I talked to them. I also realised that a woman should never be expected to have surgery to give her a body to conform to what men - or women - think should look like. So again, complaining about women who decide not to have surgery is for me the antithesis of feminism.

Those who say that someone isn't a proper woman because her body is this or not that are doing what the patriarchy has been doing for centuries. Even more so if they criticise her for something she can't change like not having ovaries . A woman's body is her own affair.

I am here to protect women and feminism.

Who from? There is a lot of difference between protecting one particular woman (i.e. your partner), and the particular brand of feminism that lets you do that, and 'protecting' the women and feminists on here who seem to have a very different idea of what protection they need and want and what sort of feminism enables that!

We don't need your idea of protection, or your idea of feminism.

Are we making your style of 'feminism' look bad by being naughty and saying no (and being a bit sweary?).

As others have said, trying to stop women talking (or even refusing to talk to them when they insist on saying things you really don't like) is doing a lot more damage than anything we are saying.

I like the attempting to convert the heathens by pointedly not talking to them line though..................

I am here to protect women and feminism.

You need to make up your mind. Are we an echo chamber out if step with the world, or a large group of women exchanging experiences of our lives and how men are harming us?

If you were really interested in protecting feminism, you would not be trying to stop us talking

SuperMatchGame: You said: "Gender identity is part of human identity. If you are alive and conscious you have a gender identity - it is the sex you feel you are. The concept of yourself as a man or a woman."

Well, that's pretty transphobic towards people with non-binary, gender-fluid, and agender identities.

Your definition of gender identity is inconsistent. You say that to have a gender identity is to have a concept of being a certain sex - and that you can 'feel' you are a certain sex. And you then say that it is the concept of yourself as a man or a woman. Well, which is it? The first definition relates to sex, and the second relates to gender. It can't be both, surely? Is gender identity 'feeling' you are a male or female, or is it 'feeling' that you are a man or woman?

If gender identity really is just having a concept of oneself as a male or female, why is this not called sex identity? It's also strange to me that your definition mentions 'feeling' like one sex or the other. How does one, internally, 'feel' like a female? I don't know that I"m female, for instance, because I 'feel' female. I know I'm female because I perceive and observe that I am literally female. If someone 'feels' they are female when they are not this doesn't actually mean that they are female!

"Gibberty has explained that she is here to take revenge on women. The male partner came here beforehand to advise us we were all bad people."

Totally false and inaccurate.

I am here to protect women and feminism.

And as we have both told you, my partner is female.

Samphire, I too was totally live and let live until TRAs started bullying lesbians and denying women's rights.

Then I started investigating why non dysphoric men transition. And it was A) all about porn and B) gross misogyny

Now I am unequivocally opposed to the whole ideology.

And I think that some of the questions Gibberty has been asked were intrusive

They were in response to items that they themselves brought to the table, in order to demonstrate how their partner was being discriminated against. We didn't bring them up, but wanted the other half of the story clarified because it is likely that the story will be read differently if the actual facts were clarified. Which they know, and that is why they are refusing to answer.

If Gibb’s partner was the one ‘I’m a lady’ing and looking for cut price female hygiene products because of daily bleeding, they have a lot more problems than a board full of disobedient women. Their attention would be best focused elsewhere.

Crikey! That got me thinking about how I rethought RadFeminism after thinking it was far too militant.

How I changed from being a SocFem, having decided that Womens Lib didn't suit me and how I am now very much a Gender Critical Feminist.

Oddly, whilst I can't really explain why I made my choices in my teens I can really clearly explain why I am now very gender critical:

I was quite liberal, didn't see the point of getting angry about a few men wanting to be women, or vice versa. I have always had 'gender bending' friends, helped a transman through his surgeries and have never ever had any reason to be in anyway perturbed by them.

But now I have been accosted in my real life, as well as on line, for refusing to fall in line with the new Emperor's New Clothes. The aggression TRAs and their allies insist that women must lay down their own values and beliefs in order to accommodate a group of men who want to re-write any and all ideas of female = XX out of existence at first bewildered me.

Over time I have become more and more angry with the lack of listening skills shown by TRAs. I have come to find their repetition of the deliberate mis interpretations and outright lies to be so blatant that I wonder why nobody in large organisations, government/political bodies etc see it.

ALL possible answers to that are really fucking scary!

So now I am moving from Gender Critical to Angry Rad Fem! And the TRAs and their Handmaids have only themselves to blame for the thousands of women like me who are starting to wake up and be more active in real life.

So Gibb if you are still not talking to me, I don't care. You've done me a favour, helped me to formalise whay I think that your perspective is dangerous to women - that's the women with the chromosomes, not the ones with the Feelz.

Thanks!

I agree with Fortunate. And I think that some of the questions Gibberty has been asked were intrusive - I wouldn't have answered them in a public forum.

On the other hand, there are some important, less personal questions, that I desperately want answers to, because I am a fence-sitter and want to be as inclusive as possible. And it's frustrating that those questions are often ignored or deemed irrelevant by trans women and their supporters. No one has to answer questions. But I really really wish they would.

Gibberty has explained that she is here to take revenge on women. The male partner came here beforehand to advise us we were all bad people. When we didn't immediately apologise and go home this person's narcissistic state caused them harm. Women who don't soothe narcissistic men are bad people in Gibberty's mind and so must be harassed in retaliation.

I have less tolerance for behaviours such as co-dependency than I used to. They cause too much harm to everyone.

I don't care Cookie, Just sick of him/her coming on and insisting that women comply with their demands. Who the fuck do they think they are?

All feminist are critical of gender because gender expectations and roles reduce women's opportunities.

Any feminist who claims not to be gender critical is lying to you. Again.

upstart we are supposed to do whichever we are told by the menz

Indeed hopping. There are 'feminists' out there who will want to talk about makeup and hair flicking and how fabulous Gibb looks.

If we are the “wrong” type of feminists then why not go and find the right ones ( ie the handmaidens that will fawn all over you) and engage them instead
I’m sure they will be more compliant

Which one are we supposed to do now, correct gendering or sexing? I can't keep up with the constant demands.

Gibberty is harassing women. The objective is revenge.

You said that you wouldn't answer questions until we complied with your requests that we use pronouns and gender descriptors that meet your requirements.

We refused to do so and explained why. Yet you are still here and choosing to engage but without answering question. Why? Why pass up an opportunity to explain the foundations of your beliefs and take advantage of a (so-called) teachable moment?

I find it really odd. It is reminiscent of a child saying they are leaving because they don't want to play the game anymore, yet sitting on the sidelines and offering up commentary on the remaining players.

TRAs bully women because they have an uncontrollable obsession with our female validation. Not much use telling the world that TWAW when the women say fuck that shit.

Going by personal experience and from comments on mainstream news sites where issues like prisons and women's sports are reported, men have absolutely no compunction at getting straight to the point. Bunch of cheats/perverts is the most common male reaction.