Why is misgendering a big deal?

A phobia is a fear of something
Transphobia = fear of trans people
I see nothing on this thread that suggests any fear of trans people, just a basic assertion of people’s rights NOT to indulge other people’s fantasies.
I defend the right if trans people to live as they choose but if they have a penis they are a Man and nothing anyone calls you can change that

For all you and @RaininSummer's and many others' talk of "erasure of women"

It wasn't us talking about erasure of women, it was the delightful Shon Faye.

can't you see that you are forcing your selfish and harmful mindset over the experiences and thoughts of other women? Not even trans women, which you might expect based on your views, but cis women?

I am not forcing anything on anyone, let alone other women who are well able to speak for themselves. I literally don't care what trans women think, as they are men! I care about women and girls and their rights.

I'm a bit in the middle on this one. I suppose that it seems polite to use people's preferred pronouns. But I don't buy the 'transwomen are women' ideology.

My only other contribution would be that I get regularly misnamed/deadnamed by my mother She and my father - now dead - have never accepted that I legally changed my first name over thirty years ago.

So from that I see that other people's refusal to accept one's chosen identity can cause real distress.

*we’re

You’ve got it all backwards roseandflowers. It’s you chaps who insist that women are one homogeneous mass identity. We’re the ones who point out that this is bollocks and the only thing all women have in common is our female bodies and the treatment were subject to because of our female bodies.

I am a woman. I have a vagina, the sex organ typically associated with my gender

I don't have a gender, I do have a vagina - can I be just 'woman' then - since I'm neither trans nor cis?

Sir Elton John has just spoken out against homophobia on social media. I wonder what he would make of the transphobia on this thread?

Who cares what he thinks? Why bring up Elton fucking John?

I am a woman. I have a vagina, the sex organ typically associated with my gender. As such, "cis" can be used as a prwnodifier to communicate this when relevant.

What? Are you on glue? What is a prwnodifier?

The vagina is the sex organ associated with your sex.

Sir Elton John has just spoken out against homophobia on social media. I wonder what he would make of the transphobia on this thread?

*sorry. I typed "premodifier" and my phone autocorrected it to gibberish.

So we've come to the thick of it, have we? You recognise fully that trans people can be trans despite gender being a social construct.

People can Trans all the way to kingdom come as far as I am concerned.

But they cannot become something they are not.

We've walked around in a circle to my original point. You're applying your experience of a complex and personal thing to everyone, taking that as fact and then using your "facts" to hurt people. While insisting that they can't.

We have walked nowhere. You are still in a confused tizzy unable to work out whether left is indeed right and what time dinner should be.

You were a cis woman a few minutes ago. Make your mind up.

How do you know you are a woman?

Sweet Jesus.
I am a woman. I have a vagina, the sex organ typically associated with my gender. As such, "cis" can be used as a prwnodifier to communicate this when relevant.

For all you and @RaininSummer's and many others' talk of "erasure of women", can't you see that you are forcing your selfish and harmful mindset over the experiences and thoughts of other women? Not even trans women, which you might expect based on your views, but cis women?

That would be perhaps because you are a woman ? Rather than identity bollocks ? Understanding the reality of one’s sex ?

So if someone has a GRC and their sex is legally female you have no reasonable grounds to use anything other than male pronouns and to describe them as female. Agreed?

What?

They will never be female will they?

Well, that sounds like a you thing, not an everyone thing, doesn't it.

It sounds like a thing with almost everyone I've ever spoken to.

I'm not saying that other people can't have genders - I'm saying that I (and many, many other people, and the dictionary) define woman as 'adult, human, female'

I'm saying that I am a woman, the vast, vast majority of people identify me as a woman, yet, according to your rules, you're saying I'm not one, because I don't have a gender.

I'm saying that my children don't seem to have genders, my partner doesn't think he has a gender, neither do my sisters. Laverne Cox apparently does.

Does that mean that only Laverne Cox is a woman out of all of us? That there's no difference between my sister and I, and my partner and male children?

That's patent nonsense. The entire world would recognise me and my sisters as female, and my partner and sons as male, and there's nothing wrong, or weird, or unexpected about that.

If someone told me that all their meetings were at 9am, but their 9am was my 6am, and they wanted me to be there, I'd tell them that actually, my working day starts at 9am as per the recognised time zone that we both lived in. I wouldn't be getting up at 5am just to avoid them getting upset that nobody was at their meetings.

So we've come to the thick of it, have we? You recognise fully that trans people can be trans despite gender being a social construct.

However, you think that someone else's gender is like a time zone. Something you can Google. Something that both of you have the same experience of.

And, as such, because of course it is your experience of gender that is something everybody obviously experiences, they can't be trans. So you don't care if you're "hurting their feelings" - despite knowing it can progress much further than hurt feelings.

We've walked around in a circle to my original point. You're applying your experience of a complex and personal thing to everyone, taking that as fact and then using your "facts" to hurt people. While insisting that they can't.

"So now you know that you are hurting people when you misgender them, will you stop?

I don't misgender anyone, I either correct sex them or do not refer to their pronouns in any way. I am not holding up some alternate reality."

So if someone has a GRC and their sex is legally female you have no reasonable grounds to use anything other than male pronouns and to describe them as female. Agreed?

I don't know about Terfragette but I am going to start misgendering more I think as I now realise I have been way too polite in supporting delusions as I have never and will never believe that trans women are women they are men. I used to be of the let's be kind and polite school of thought but i realise now it is the slippery slope to further demands and erasure of actual women. And fuck off with the CIS.

It is a slippery slope.

*I'm a woman. I know I'm a woman.

You were a cis woman a few minutes ago. Make your mind up.

How do you know you are a woman?

So now you know that you are hurting people when you misgender them, will you stop?

I don't misgender anyone, I either correct sex them or do not refer to their pronouns in any way. I am not holding up some alternate reality.

I don't have an internal gender according to all the definitions I've read

Well, that sounds like a you thing, not an everyone thing, doesn't it.

I'm a woman. I know I'm a woman. If I was in a sci-fi movie and my consciousness got implanted into a man's body, I'd still mentally be a woman. If my vagina got chopped off, or my chromosomes changed, or I had no body at all, I'd identify as a woman. I don't just have a particular set of genes. Psychologically, I am a woman.

This is surprisingly very applicable to some of my earlier statements; people applying their own experiences of gender to everyone else.

"Time is a social construct. People can't be late."

Good example.

If someone told me that all their meetings were at 9am, but their 9am was my 6am, and they wanted me to be there, I'd tell them that actually, my working day starts at 9am as per the recognised time zone that we both lived in. I wouldn't be getting up at 5am just to avoid them getting upset that nobody was at their meetings.

"Money is a social construct. People can't be poor."

Good example.

If someone told me that I owed them £500 because their interpretation that there was 500 pence in each £, and I had originally borrowed £100, I would not be paying them £500 but the originally agreed £100, whether they thought that was virtual violence or not.