Why is misgendering a big deal?

GibbertyFlibbert, damn right I would object. That is exactly what I am afraid the translobby are trying to achieve.

There are two sexes, and, due to our different biology and the way men treat us because of our biology, women as a sex class need certain protections in law.

Yes roseandflowers it's such convoluted ideology that even self proclaiming experts like yourself can't keep on track.

No one is saying that roseandflowers, apart from you. Gender identity is invisible, gender expression isn't.

Agreed. So what exactly are you disagreeing with?

What
Is
Gender
?

Or not having a period even.

I'm still trying to work out how someone "bleeding" would be sent to a psychiatrist.

Do you mean upset at having a period?

if a woman kept her surname on marriage but someone insisted on calling them by their husbands name that would be seen as rude, nasty and probably mysoginistic. it would be seen as devaluing the woman sense of self.

This has happened to me all my married life, sometimes accidentally because of the sexist assumptions in society, sometimes deliberately calling me "Mrs HisInitial HisSurname" because I don't conform to their insistence that my identity is a subset of his.

It is misogynistic, its also a recurring thread on this site. On each and every thread there is substantial number of posters telling people like me that I need to get over myself, that I'm making something out of nothing, that Mrs hisname is the correct form of address, that legally my name changed when I married (it didn't).

*more trans, sorry.

I changed it from "trans woman" to "trans man" and didn't change the second part, sorry

The things people seem to be referring to as gender nowadays, are simply aspects of their personality, which are unique to all of us, and should not be taken into account when making laws.

This is actually a very common misunderstanding, or, in the case of some, a convenient myth.

Gender identity has nothing to do with personality, stereotypes etc. If you don't like high heels, it doesn't make you less of a woman. If a trans man dislikes high heels, it doesn't make him less trans.

Thought experiment. Tomorrow we pass a law erasing all references to sex. No more men and women. No more male and female. Just people. I predict that the ones who deliberately mis-gender and mis-sex women with a trans history would be the first to object. Definitely double standards at work.

How do you feel about Shon Faye wanting you to 'enjoy your erasure'?

As they mean you too.

GibbertyFlibbert

"Thought experiment. Tomorrow we pass a law erasing all references to sex. No more men and women. No more male and female. Just people. I predict that the ones who deliberately mis-gender and mis-sex women with a trans history would be the first to object. Definitely double standards at work."

You are so confused. You contradict yourself within the same sentence. You demonstrate that you haven't actually comprehended your opponent's position.

It's like debating a toddler.

Wake up. It's a pivotal issue because the sooner it's made socially unacceptable to talk about someone's birth sex all the legitimate concerns about women's rights and protection against male violence are eradicated simply through language being quite literally neutered

Just read this on another thread... 100% agree... it is a terrifyingly slippery slope and like many others I would politely use one to one, and now won't do so ... with just a few exceptions for people I really like, and are doing their best to blend in without shrieking their demands from the rooftops... Ok, I know illogical.

Thought experiment. Tomorrow we pass a law erasing all references to sex. No more men and women. No more male and female. Just people. I predict that the ones who deliberately mis-gender and mis-sex women with a trans history would be the first to object. Definitely double standards at work.

I'm a cis woman. Do you care what I think about this issue, and the many other cis women that agree with me?

How do you feel about Shon Faye wanting you to 'enjoy your erasure'?

As they mean you too.

No one is saying that roseandflowers, apart from you. Gender identity is invisible, gender expression isn't.

Your contorted, painful and frequently incoherent posts are symptomatic of the problem. To have to use so much word salad to sooth a few thousand people with a mental health condition is a major imposition. All of your patronising posts simply make this clearer and clearer.

A thing is a thing that identifies as a thing.

A thing is a thing that has 'thing' on a thing.

A thing is a thing that calls itself thing.

This is the essence of TRA 'arguments' laid bare.

Of course I can't respect such nonsense. I'd need the mythical ladybrain to swallow this circular crap.

Well, it made me laugh, if nothing else.

I was actually kind of hoping someone would mock the term "two-spirit". It showcases how vastly uneducated a lot of transphobes are. Inevitably, if I mention it in a discussion, someone will mock it. I was quite surprised it hadn't happened yet.

It's a modern translation to describe one of the original genders of ancient Native Americans. Two genders has always been a ridiculously simple construct and so the Native Americans had more - 7, I believe, though I might be wrong. Unlike most ancient societies, which almost always had terms for genderfluidity, they were held in great esteem and seen as very special by the Native American people.

So you're not just ignorant about modern identities - but of history and other culture! Good going.

1) I used time as an example to convey that something bring a social construct doesn't make it less impactful or integral to modern life.
2) You took said example further and likened gender to a time zone - specifically in the context of one person thinking it was a different time to you.
3) As such, you essentially confirmed that you think of other people's genders as time zones in respect of your comparative knowledge; that you may know as much as them despite it being impossible for you to.
4) You have therefore supported my original point that, the vast majority of the time, it's the belief that your experience is the same as everyone's, and as such you know as much about a trans persons gender as they do.

You have forgotten that GMT doesn't change daily to cover 71 time zones and forcing everyone to change their watches depending on who they are talking to.

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10930654/Facebooks-71-gender-options-come-to-UK-users.html

What? Are you on glue? What is a prwnodifier?
Just look at my post underneath the original one

I literally don't care what trans women think, as they are men! I care about women and girls and their rights.

I'm a cis woman. Do you care what I think about this issue, and the many other cis women that agree with me?

Or, if it really breaks your heart to see "cis woman", I'm a woman whose not trans.

Evidence suggests that you don't.

You are aware how much hurt you cause by saying this. People end up needing medical attention. Do you really not care about people?

Gibbertyflibbert, I am aware that some people, like your partner, believe they have an innate 'gender identity', and that they were 'born in the wrong body', and are 'really' the opposite sex. I think their beliefs are a load of unscientific bollocks, the same way I think the core beliefs of all organised religions are a load of bollocks.

I don't go round mosques and churches shouting 'God doesn't exist', and I wouldn't go up to a random transwoman and say 'You're a bloke'.

But if people started coming into my workplace demanding I start praying, I'd tell them where to go. And when transwomen start invading women only spaces and demanding I call them women, I will tell them that they are men, and don't belong there.

That may be very hurtful. I don't care.

@rosesandflowers, what a load of claptrap!

2 spirit?? Well, it made me laugh, if nothing else.

There are only 2 SEXES, and there are some people born with chromosomal mutations, which we refer to as intersex, but there are still only 2 SEXES. Humans are binary, we are all either male or female.

Gender, and all the rest, is man-made crap, and a load of rubbish. No one fits fully into the gender stereotypes of their biological sex, so everyone could be considered nonbinary.

The things people seem to be referring to as gender nowadays, are simply aspects of their personality, which are unique to all of us, and should not be taken into account when making laws.

*couldn't.

If a woman kept her surname on marriage but someone insisted on calling them by their husbands name that would be seen as rude, nasty and probably mysoginistic. it would be seen as devaluing the woman sense of self.

But that happens all the time! It's a natural mistake to make mainly by my DCs school. I could really care.

Hard to say as someone who has never experienced being misgendered and is unlikely to be. I have a couple of friends who have been accidentally and I think it was a bit humiliating.

We have walked nowhere. You are still in a confused tizzy unable to work out whether left is indeed right and what time dinner should be.

You can say what you like, but what happened was this:

1. I used time as an example to convey that something bring a social construct doesn't make it less impactful or integral to modern life.
2. You took said example further and likened gender to a time zone - specifically in the context of one person thinking it was a different time to you.
3. As such, you essentially confirmed that you think of other people's genders as time zones in respect of your comparative knowledge; that you may know as much as them despite it being impossible for you to.
4. You have therefore supported my original point that, the vast majority of the time, it's the belief that your experience is the same as everyone's, and as such you know as much about a trans persons gender as they do.