Why is misgendering a big deal?

Gender fans - can you really truly not grasp this?

Obviously sex-based issues are there. The ones that come to mind most prominently are reproductive rights, the tampon tax etc.

But a vast amount of what I experience as part of misogyny a trans woman will also experience. Similarly, a trans man will experience sex-based discrimination. It's not like they're exempt.

I get that, Hideandgo - but your examples about small children are about affirmation.

"You're a great singer!" Lovely compliment.

If it's not true, telling someone that they are a lovely singer can set them up for misery and heartbreak - surely all the people on X Factor who sound like a broken drain have been told "you're a great singer!" by people close to them? And why won't any choir accept them, didn't they hear how great the audition was? People who laugh at them singing must just be jealous of how good a singer they are, eh?

If someone really is a great singer, then fair enough, tell them. If they aren't, there are myriad other ways to be supportive without affirming their singing abilities. "I love when you sing to me!" is my current favourite when (tone deaf) DS serenades me. "You always choose such happy songs to sing!" "It's lovely that you and Fred sing along together, you're being a great friend"

Gender fans - can you really truly not grasp this?

It is baffling the mind tricks these people are putting themselves through to literally erase their own existence.

Meanwhile, how's the 'enjoying your erasure' going all you Gender fans? Feeling good about your literal removal from all sex-based rights?

RedPandaBear

I am shocked and disgusted at some of the comments made to you, I wish you and your child every happiness, Ignore the vile remarks,

Thank you @Giddy99 x

There are two sexes, and, due to our different biology and the way men treat us because of our biology, women as a sex class need certain protections in law.

Gender fans - can you really truly not grasp this?

Cis just means you identify as man and have a penis, or identify as a woman and have a vagina.

I don't 'identify' as anything! I just am.

My 19 year old has recently disclosed to me that they are non-binary.

Welcome to the club. Most humans are. It won't change her sex though will it?

@juzzal

""My 19 year old has recently disclosed to me that they are non-binary."

You need to tell your 19 year to stop being an idiot, we are all non-binary, she just looks stupid calling herself that.

How nasty is your reply, that is disgusting to to call a mothers child an idiot,

The importance I place on truth outweighs the importance someone places upon a lie. I will not capitulate to nonsense like preferred pronouns.

You know what - reading some of the responses here makes me so sad.

Of course everyone is able to have their own opinion but look how far the world has evolved over the years.

100 years ago, women were treated at the secondary sex. Now we (allegedly) have equal rights. Homosexuality is now legal. Look at Ru Paul's drag race. Transgender is now mainstream.

Society is constantly evolving. The way we feel about ourselves is evolving.

And if my CHILD feels the way they do, then who am I to say they are living a lie?

And it's down to close-minded people who can't see others people's points of view that scare me for my child's future.

Do you care what I think about this issue,

No. I don't care what Scientologists' personal worldview is either.

Ancient, I genuinely think you underestimate how much importance other peoples view of you has to your fundamental sense of self. Even the simplest things such as your mum telling you that you’re a great storyteller as a child or a friend saying ‘you’re always such a good listener’.

People always think they are a product of their own making but reality is that we are all products of our environment/upbringing/peers etc.

So, how we view ourselves is made up of many little things coming from how others view us. If people keep tearing down one of the most basic elements that we identify ourselves by, gender, I can’t imagine how confused/angry/distressed etc. that would make me feel.

"the irony was that I've interacted with about three people with "terf" in their username"

You aren't the only person to see irony in that

Don't you understand that I have no gender identity, I don't "identify" as a woman, I just am one? It is a true fact about me. It tells you nothing about my identity or about my personality. So, I am not cis. I am also not trans.

can't you see that you are forcing your selfish and harmful mindset over the experiences and thoughts of other women?

That's really some projection.

Women tend not to identify as women - we just ARE women!👍

I think people the best definition of transphobic might be the one used by the Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homophobic-biphobic-and-transphobic-hate-crime-prosecution-guidance

I'm not validating my principles.

You do sound silly.

You have the principle that to call a trans woman a woman would be a lie, yes?

Instead of just thinking this, you've stated that you'd refuse to refer to someone their preferred pronouns - based on this principle.

So in a way, you are kind of validating it. You're not just thinking it or discussing it with like minded people. You said you wouldn't change this based on a person's anxiety. (Pretty shitty, IMO.)

My question to you was if you would be prepared to change this principle based on the severity of the persons issues. I'd like an answer. It would be very telling.

Cis is not just a descriptor - it is limiting!! It means that people cannot veer out of 'normal' gender identity without thinking they should be trans!

What?
Cis just means you identify as man and have a penis, or identify as a woman and have a vagina.

Why would that make anyone feel compelled to be trans? It's not really based on your whims anyway, is it.

You blithely insult posters further with your TERF comments and, when posters point out the insult, you will still insist that your little voice knows best.

All the while repeating that telling people they are something they don't want to be called is literally harmful!

When I said "something told me" I meant it as a joke. Perhaps it was a bad one, but the irony was that I've interacted with about three people with "terf" in their username.

As for the rest of it, I don't really understand. Are you saying I'm hypocritical because I'm saying that misgendering someone can be harmful and that "cis" isn't offensive?

Please can we get a pinned post on the board that explains in simple terms the difference between gender and sex? Because it's clear that lots of posters here don't get it, which rather renders the whole debate obsolete

@Hideandgo How you see yourself, whoever you are, is massively tied up in how other people see you. And who other people accept you to be.

Not for me it isn't. I don't give a shiny shit how others see me. That's common in my generation, we see ourselves as teeny, tiny cogs in an enormous wheel. Younger people are so self-focused all they see is themselves.

Last thought:

I bought some men's jeans last week. Does that make me a man? Of course not. I am a woman who wanted normal non-skinny jeans with decent pockets in them; and the "ladies wear" versions available simply don't give me what I want.

Can a man wear a dress? Of course! Does putting on a dress make him a woman? No - in the same way that me putting on a mask and gloves doesn't make me a brain surgeon.

Rosesandflowers

You haven't grasped the difference between sex and gender at all.

Sex is real.
References to it are meaningful and valid.
Gender is just....Nothing. no definition, no characteristics, no meaning. It uses words that relate to sex whilst claiming sex doesn't matter. It's a circular meaningless mess.
References to gender that masquerade under words that relate to sex are not valid.

"This person has XY chromosomes". HIS SEX is male. = Valid.

"This person has XY chromosomes. HER 'gender' is female = false.

Pronouns refer to the objective charactistic sex. Not the meaningless concept gender.

Something tells you?

So women can say, and spend a lot of time explaining why they are not transphobic and not cis and you dismiss their thoughts, beliefs, wishes because that little something spoke more loudly?

You blithely insult posters further with your TERF comments and, when posters point out the insult, you will still insist that your little voice knows best.

All the while repeating that telling people they are something they don't want to be called is literally harmful!

Can you see it yet, Roses? Can you see your own hipocracy?

Will you try entering an honest debate yet?

Example:

We're going to fire you because you don't wear a dress and we believe women should wear dresses = gender construct.

We're going to fire you because you are pregnant = sex based discrimination.

One is subjective, the other is fact.

Othered from womanhood!