Why is misgendering a big deal?

You really don't have a clue what the gender critical position is. I don't subscribe to your Humpty Dumpty worldview. Sorry. Nor do most other people. And you can't force them to.

Is this directed at me?

If so, what an odd response to a discussion about misogyny trans people might encounter. It's not really about being gender critical at all. A lot of misogyny is based on how misogynists view you. Trans women will experience sexual harassment and work-place sexism, it's just kind of how it is, and often the better they "pass" the worse it will be.

And do you mean Humpty Dumpty as in the egg?

I can't force anybody to believe anything - an odd statement too. I can give my opinion. If it's changing yours, that can happen in a debate. It's not because I'm "forcing" you.

what do I use as an XX person with no gender identity?

Corpse.

Gender identity is part of human identity. If you are alive and conscious you have a gender identity - it is the sex you feel you are. The concept of yourself as a man or a woman.

Absolutely SirVix.

Much of your waffle derives from the Yogyarka Principles. These are the principles in question, we are experiencing a drive to have this embedded in law, which requires a wholesale demobilisation of the word sex. You have obviously swallowed the whole lot of it.

Not everyone has.

@AncientLights I agree, tiny cogs, versus I AM THE WHEEL THAT TURNS EVERYTHING , YOU ALL REVOLVE AROUND ME .
We have a problem with socially sanctioning narcissism.

You really don't have a clue what the gender critical position is. I don't subscribe to your Humpty Dumpty worldview. Sorry. Nor do most other people. And you can't force them to.

Roseandflowers is a now a stuck record.

I've gone from sex-segregated sport to Native American gender to cis terminology to reproductive rights to sexual harassment! (This was off the top of my head. If I've missed stuff out or its in a different order, don't flame me.)

You've gone from one condescending comment to another! Still without answering the question. Please answer it. I'm genuinely interested as to what extent you'd go.

Rose don't worry about Picasso. Picasso likes to go on about records and things that go round and round, and post songs about it. It is their hobby.

I don't have an internal gender according to all the definitions I've read

But you do have a concept of yourself as a woman. A trans man born with a female body like you would have a concept of himself as a man. You're never going to be able to imagine what that feels like.

That is gender identity - the sense of yourself as a man or a woman. Such a trans man may be seen as a woman, but that would feel wrong and he would feel that people should be relating to him as a they would to a man, not a woman.

Some rare passing trans identified males may. The rest don't experience misogyny.

The majority of the misogyny I've experienced is sexual harassment. Trans women tend to experience this as soon as they vaguely pass. There's so many posts about it; having to come to terms with being catcalled, or strangers thinking they have the right to touch you. I think some people have a sexual fetish for feminisation which can often be applied to trans people.

They are just as likely to be viewed as weak/stupid because of misogyny. Trans men are made fun of by misogynists for trying to ascend to the male level. Trans women are mocked because now, they see them on the same level as women.

I think trans women often get the hit of the gender pay gap once they've transitioned, too.

No, cis means that you identify as a woman. Cis is unnecessary, it's a label that isn't needed, isn't wanted and doesn't describe me.
It's not necessary in general conversation. In some discussions it's very helpful as a way to differentiate!

I'll ask again - how do you feel about your erasure?

I don't really feel erased
Trans women are women, okay, so am I. I'm still here.

Just because discussions about trans people aren't centred on me (obviously) doesn't make me "erased"!

Roseandflowers is a now a stuck record.

Get one of these machines roseandflowers, you will have great fun.

www.scientology.org.uk/faq/scientology-and-dianetics-auditing/what-is-the-emeter-and-how-does-it-work.html

have nothing in common with male people who falsely call themselves women.
Not my sex.
Not 'gender'.

This. "Gender" is sex role stereotypes and restrictive societal expectations.

mega bold fail in my above post!!

*Ancient, I genuinely think you underestimate how much importance other peoples view of you has to your fundamental sense of self. Even the simplest things such as your mum telling you that you’re a great storyteller as a child or a friend saying ‘you’re always such a good listener’.

People always think they are a product of their own making but reality is that we are all products of our environment/upbringing/peers etc.

So, how we view ourselves is made up of many little things coming from how others view us. If people keep tearing down one of the most basic elements that we identify ourselves by, gender, I can’t imagine how confused/angry/distressed etc. that would make me feel.*

i agree with so much of this and i accept that at the moment gender is how some people choose to identify themselves. it does not however mean that everybody else has to believe in gender for themselves or to look at the notion of gender uncritically. i have christian and muslim friends but i do not believe in god and i sometimes criticise elements of those religions. i still accept that my friends are christian and muslim and their beliefs are real. i expect they have thoughts about my atheism too.

just because gender identity is important to some people, it does not have to follow that sex based rights and data go out of the window. sex and gender are two different things.

I have XX chromosomes and ovaries (and all the rest of that anatomical package)

I call myself whatever the word is for the above description.

If the word for the above description was blarg, I'd be a blarg.
And people who don't meet that description would not be a blarg, no matter how they 'identified'.

This is how the word female works.
It isn't a matter of 'identity' or 'gender'.

It's nothing to do with psychology or beliefs.
It doesn't matter how the individual feels about it.

The word for people with my anatomy is female. Adults are women, juveniles are girls.

No one can identify as this and make it be true.

You either fit the description and share this anatomy type in common with 3.7 billion others, or you don't.

I have nothing in common with male people who falsely call themselves women.
Not my sex.
Not 'gender'.

People thinking they are special by calling themselves non-binary are idiots trying to identify into oppression.

And here we have an example of an absolute idiot, and an asshole to boot!

Why would people want to be oppressed? It's not really fun.

Why have non-binary people - or people with the same identity, but a different name - existed throughout history? In different parts of the world? Without interacting with each other beforehand?

What about people who identified as it in one of the rare cultures where it wasn't looked down upon? What was their goal?

If they wanted to be oppressed to the point where they'd change their entire gender identity couldn't they just be trans?

And why do you think you know their gender better than them?

There is no need for Cis...you are just a woman! That's it!!! Don't you get it?

But a vast amount of what I experience as part of misogyny a trans woman will also experience

I don't agree. Some rare passing trans identified males may. The rest don't experience misogyny.

No, cis means that you identify as a woman. Cis is unnecessary, it's a label that isn't needed, isn't wanted and doesn't describe me.

Okay fine, you are a woman and have a vagina. That's what's communicated with the term "cis woman"?

Do you find the vagina part offensive, or the woman part?

You can't say CIS is for people who are ok with their genders and then when people say they don't have a gender say 'oh you too'.

I'll ask again - how do you feel about your erasure?

I don't 'identify' as anything! I just am.

Okay fine, you are a woman and have a vagina. That's what's communicated with the term "cis woman"?

Do you find the vagina part offensive, or the woman part?

One prime example of how my friend was spoken to in a shoe shop was oh we dont do those in 10, anyway they are more suited to smaller dainty feet

Well, to be fair, anyone who deviates from the norm gets that - DP and I still giggle at the time I was looking at a beautiful top, and asked an assistant who was close what sizes it came in. She took me in with horror (I'm short and fat) grabbed my arm and said 'you're too big, try over there!' pushing me towards another area of the store.

And the comments I've had about my tiny but very wide feet.. God, it's lucky that I'm realistic about myself.

And I didn't get that way until I was nearly 30. For the first 30 years of my life I hid myself and tried to hide my body, I had no confidence at all - that kind of comment would have hit home very hard, because I know it's true. It's only once I learned to admit to myself that it was true, and give myself a break, that I've been able to accept them for what they were - rude comments, but correct.

I can tell you which was a healthier, better way to live - and it wasn't letting other people's words control me.