Why is misgendering a big deal?

*aren't generally our problem

But a reason why it isn't used often in these discussions could very possibly be that all of you are very centred on trans women. Have you noticed?

Because trans identified females are f generally our problem. Entitled males who want to take over womanhood and centre their own demands are.

Women and transwomen works just fine.

Is "non-trans" a preferable substitute?

No, it is not preferable. No substitute is needed, since there is already a proper word for someone born with the female sex. Woman.

Non trans?? Stop othering women Rose...we are WOMEN! Why is that so hard for you to understand? Refer to us as women.

I feel like we're barrelling towards a misunderstanding, but sure.

Do you believe in the idea of a woman's penis?
I'd call a trans woman a woman. If she's not having surgery for some reason or got it booked for a later date or whatever, then she has a penis.

So yes, I guess I do.

Interesting how Rose is so keen to earnestly defend all aspects of male “identity” crap and yet can’t even bring herself to use the word “woman” when talking to, you know, women.
Yet doesn’t see the hypocrisy or offensiveness in that.

Weird that you would say that the only therapy offered is conversion therapy then. What did you mean? That obviously doesn't happen in the UK, and isn't the only therapy offered in many other places too.

Yes. I think that sums it up! A man can choose how he is called (you really don't see m/nay transmen calling for men to be erased) but a woman cannot be accorded the same privilege!

"Cis man" is definitely a term used. IME, often to refer to the most privileged group of people e.g. "if another white cishet man tells me what to do..." But a reason why it isn't used often in these discussions could very possibly be that all of you are very centred on trans women. Have you noticed?

Misgendering carries a lot more weight than "cis" ever will - axiomatically - which is why I don't think they're comparable at all. But as it clearly doesn't sit well with most of you and it's unfair of me to refer to you as such if I know you find it upsetting, I said I'd stop.

Roses.

Do you believe in the idea of a woman's penis?

Non trans?? Stop othering women Rose...we are WOMEN! Why is that so hard for you to understand? Refer to us as women.

"Is "non-trans" a preferable substitute?"

No woman is enough. Is that you Aimee?

She wants to include males in her description of "woman".

Trans people in the UK are not offered therapy with the aim of making them desist. Affirmation is what is done these days, unless I am mistaken? Conversion therapy is very definitely not something that any qualified psychiatrist/gender specialist would be allowed to mandate.

No, because it's hideous and awful and most qualified psychiatrists/gender specialists are horrified by the existence of it.

But conversion therapy is most definitely a thing. It's illegal in the UK but not everywhere.

WOMAN Is a perfectly acceptable word, but it is amusing watching you tie yourself in knots to be seen as nice yet still not use it.

No - conversion therapy is a tool used to try and literally "convert" LGBT+ teens from their identity

Now you're lumping all LGBT people into one group as if trans ideology didn't have a homophobia problem.

As for the rest of it, I don't really understand. Are you saying I'm hypocritical because I'm saying that misgendering someone can be harmful and that "cis" isn't offensive?

Yes. I think that sums it up! A man can choose how he is called (you really don't see m/nay transmen calling for men to be erased) but a woman cannot be accorded the same privilege!

And you need to remember what cis actually means - though I know you don't like words to have definitions:

Cis–trans isomerism, also known as geometric isomerism or configurational isomerism, is a term used in organic chemistry. The prefixes "cis" and "trans" are from Latin: "this side of" and "the other side of", respectively. In the context of chemistry, cis indicates that the functional groups are on the same side of the carbon chain[1] while trans conveys that functional groups are on opposing sides of the carbon chain.

It is a wholly coopted word that doesn't even have the same meaning it has been grabbed for!

Cis is only used by those deliberately trying to destroy the Meaning of the word woman.
I could trot out of my door now and ask every person I meet what Cis means and I guarantee no one would have a clue. It is a nonsense term, made up to normalise trans males as actual women. You are a hypocrite.

I've gathered you've all got a lot of feelings about this word … so am going to stop using it. Is "non-trans" a preferable substitute?

It really just makes it a lot easier. It's a short word that can go in front to specify whether the woman is trans or not. I don't use it because I want to "destroy meanings" or offend anybody.

I think telling teenage girls that they are right in their “identity” panic to get out of girlhood and be boys, and sending them on a road to sterility and amputated breasts is “heartbreaking “

What you stated isn't true. Trans people in the UK are not offered therapy with the aim of making them desist. Affirmation is what is done these days, unless I am mistaken? Conversion therapy is very definitely not something that any qualified psychiatrist/gender specialist would be allowed to mandate.

Was waiting for that one!

Cap fits and all that. I don't identify as a transphobe or "cis" but you have bestowed that on people here. You can call yourself a cis woman if you like, but don't arrogantly presume to apply it to me. I don't have a gender identity so I guess I'm agender.

Cis is only used by those deliberately trying to destroy the Meaning of the word woman.
I could trot out of my door now and ask every person I meet what Cis means and I guarantee no one would have a clue. It is a nonsense term, made up to normalise trans males as actual women. You are a hypocrite.

Apart from you absolutely did. We see this bullshit and thank goodness women can lurk and read exactly what you TRAs are trying to pull.

I understand I should have made it clearer, but the post was about a comparable situation. Having traumatic flashbacks from an abusive home or conversion therapy is more comparable to an actual phobia of men, rather than just discomfort/ wanting them not to be there.

Apologies again. It was worded very poorly.

I don't think you mean conversion therapy... perhaps affirmation therapy?

No - conversion therapy is a tool used to try and literally "convert" LGBT+ teens from their identity. It's absolutely awful and I think the suicide rates are about 50%. I've read some accounts and they're heartbreaking.

I'm not on your gender spectrum. That's not something I believe in. I'm not trans.

are you aware that among some TIM sexual harassment is a very welcome validation?
Yes - I did touch on that in my original post. The idea that they are being treated "like women" can be exhilarating above the degradation/fear of the moment. Some trans people enjoy it for sexual/validation reasons that cis (or non-trans, if that's what you prefer) women may also experience.

Don't be so patronising. You were applying your definition to anyone who isn't trans. That is wrong as has been explained to you. It's not a matter of "confusing".

Sorry if that was implied, but as I said, a genuine miscommunication. "Cis" is used only to describe those who identify as either a woman or a man and whose sex corresponds with that. People elsewhere on the gender spectrum aren't usually encompassed in this term.

If you want your handmaiden cookies that's up to you, but I am not a "cis woman". Males are not a subset of women. They are a subset of men.
Ah, of course. I'm a "handmaiden" Was waiting for that one!

Because misogynistic men are so frequently completely educated on trans rights!

Absolutely not.

Apart from you absolutely did. We see this bullshit and thank goodness women can lurk and read exactly what you TRAs are trying to pull.