Why is misgendering a big deal?

It's now a hate crime you can be arrested for or held in contempt of court for.

how could a woman feel comfortable refusing a male HCP when he tells her he is the female nurse she requested for her smear?

Well that's where we need to make sure we are adamant about the difference between sex and gender.
Gender = society's perception which probably ties in with dress/pronouns.
Sex = biology and if that's what you want in a HCP you are entitled to have it.
Put that loud and clear on NHS posters and make sure that any HCP who is trans knows they have to abide by the difference.
Make sure that the sex of the person who is due to perform the procedure is clear.
"You're booked in today with Dr Brown who is male. Dr Brown is also trans. If you would prefer a female doctor or if you'd like a chaperone let us know".
Oh and while we're at it, it may well be appropriate to point out to a work supervisor that you are trans and prefer to be called "she", it's not appropriate to point that out to anyone in a vulnerable position e.g. an elderly patient.
I would happily tell a work supervisor not to call me "dearie" or Mrs. I wouldn't tell an elderly neighbour who needed my help to get up and call their carer.

I think that just because someone is not trying to hide that they are trans, doesn’t mean they don’t believe they are and should be identified as a woman in society.
From what various trans people have said, it's possible to identify as a transwoman or transman and be happy to say you are not a woman or man as appropriate, but still think that the category you're in goes better with the pronouns "she" and "he" respectively.
In fact I'd be happier to attempt to remember the correct pronouns for people who are clear about what they are. As long as everyone else attempts to remember that I'm not Mrs/Miss.

MNHQ moderation policy seems to take a view on misgendering -

That said, it’s clear that most trans people find the use of pronouns, or names that they or others have consciously rejected, to be hurtful and would therefore struggle to engage in a discussion with those who insist on using them... it’s likely that going forward our moderation team will delete these expressions.

Italian, I think that just because someone is not trying to hide that they are trans, doesn’t mean they don’t believe they are and should be identified as a woman in society. I’m assuming so anyway. I’ve no right to speak for trans people.

@GibbertyFlibbert, I'd never really considered myself a feminist as I mistakenly thought we were pretty equal to men, although these wonderful women have truly opened my eyes to the shit we still face. Mostly though, it is the TRAs like you that have made me wake up and see just how far we still have to go, so I truly thank you for that.

Just my opinion but I think Gibs is so adament and blinded by this simply because I think her world would fall apart if she had to admit what her other half really is. So she sticks her fingers in her ears, metaphorically speaking, and repeats the mantra to keep it real. I feel sorry for her, actually, to be so blinded to reality. It can't be nice.

In terms of the opening post "Why is misgendering a big deal?"

Did anyone watch the Channel 4 programme about marriage tonight?

Bride and Prejudice.

www.channel4.com/programmes/bride-prejudice

There is a transgender man on the programme. He passes very well and I can see for someone like that that 'misgendering' would be a real issue. It's just i am not sure we have mentioned cases of trans men on this thread (but I am not sure I've read every post!)

I just wanted to mention that. The irony is that while I might be expressing concern about misgendering him, he is on a TV programme as openly trans, so I am not really sure how to view 'misdendering' in that light. I hope that makes sense! I just watched it and wanted to mention it.

@SupermatchGame Tue 12-Jun-18 23:43:14
"Would not appear so.
Well it appears so to me Italiangreyhound. I think most people would feel we are more civilised and enlightened in the west than 100 years ago."

I would like to think there is, and to some degree there is. But I am fearful that some of the way women are being treated now is exactly the same as it was a long time ago. I am very lucky that I am not being treated badly at all.

So it is a mixed picture. I would agree with you some things are definitely better. But while I still need to say that 'I am lucky' that things are good for me, then I don't think we women have got automatically the same rights and freedoms as men and sometimes things appear to go backwards!

Would not appear so.
Well it appears so to me Italiangreyhound. I think most people would feel we are more civilised and enlightened in the west than 100 years ago.

Some have. Some have not. But caring about ourselves, our privacy and other women is not necessarily dependent on having had our personal boundaries violated.

Some trans women, possibly more now as the umbrella is widening, retain enough male characteristics that they may be perceived as men. I can understand that and see how it could be disturbing in intimate situations for someone who has been violated by a man. I don't know what the solution is there. The EA allows exclusion of a trans woman from a sexual abuse support group, for example, if the service feels their presence would prevent other women from accessing. But for general situations of privacy where that isn't the case the law will have to decide how these potentially conflicting rights are resolved.

Those women who don't care if non-females are in their intimate spaces are welcome to campaign for unisex places.

If they don't care then they more than likely see them as women, so why would they? If they see those trans women as women why would they even think that they should be in a separate space?

This thread is er... wild.

What the fuck is that post? Ah those fucking Scots randomly insulting people with their inability to discern sex? Rude people and racism ah Jeasus, that's all fine

Fuck off with nonsense. It's you who has the issue

OK. I’m going out on a limb here so don’t shoot me down.

This request often prefaces the instruction that we "suck it up, buttercup" by people who view themselves as the very model of a modern tolerant person.
Until something offends them

OK. I’m going out on a limb here so don’t shoot me down. But you can choose to take offence or not. I work with someone with a broad Scots accent. We had a trans woman in our care, she was in fact intersex and had mostly lived as a man before making the change and maybe as such is coming from a different place than some trans. Anyway my colleague ended a conversation with “Och, you’re a good man you are”. There was a rather horrible pause, at least I wanted to fall through the floor, but I said “Don’t worry X, she’s just Scottish and calls everyone Good Man”. Moment averted, laughter all round, no complaints. I dread to think what would happen with some of these fragile young trans if she said that, when you read about teachers getting disciplined for calling a group of girls plus one trans “Girls”.

But there are lots of times when one can choose to take offence or not. A friend of my parents, noting my obvious pregnancy said “oh my daughter’s having a baby soon too, but she’s one of those elderly mothers”. I said “same as me then”. He was so mortified, it was really funny and I certainly didn’t take offence.

And what about those occasional cases of twins where one is coloured and one is white. What insolent remarks they have to endure, and their parents, as people question their parentage, make wrong assumptions about them being best friends, not twins, ask outright rude questions.

Really, life is too short. Let it run off like water from a ducks back. Feel sorry for the other person’s ignorance if that seems appropriate. See the funny side. Or just ignore it.

Daily I don't think this is anti trans, it's think it's important to discuss these topics. There is an issue with safety if we aren't allowed to question these things.

You can't expect anyone to know that you identify as a female if you look like a male. It's putting people in a situation that isn't right. It could result in a person losing their job for being discriminatory even though they did nothing wrong.

The idea that anyone should just know that someone who looks like any other random male identifies as a woman and preemptively choose the pronouns they'd prefer and so on is absurd. It's a situation designed to trip people up and put them on the back foot at worse, and the result of such extreme narcissism that the individual concerned just assumes that everyone else will naturally be alert to and aware of their preferences at best.

When "oblivious narcissist" is your best case scenario...

Raven please don't think this is about being "anti-trans". We know there are people who genuinely believe that they were born in the wrong body and of course they should be heard, understood and supported. But hearing and understanding does not mean appropriating the hard-won rights and protections of another group.

Don't forget that a number of trans-women refer to themselves as feminists.

Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women.

Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists is the term applied to Feminists who exclude males from their feminism for what should be obvious reasons.

"Feminism is about equality for everyone" is one of the propaganda slogans of the backlash against Feminism.

It has been about five years ago that one of the largest MRA groups on the intertubz organized a rat-fucking effort on Youtube and Facebook creating dozens of false feminist pages and groups. Everyday Feminism is a perfect example of a misogynist false flag operation posing a feminists.

tl;dr version: If it does not center women and promote the interests of women as a class it is not Feminism.

You appear to think that this is a hostage negotiation, Gib. It's not, it's a chat board. People don't have to obey you, and now that you've made it clear that you will only engage if you're obeyed why should anyone bother discussing anything with you?

Apologies for @ I was just answering questions.

And a common follow-up to a feminist sharing that belief is being accused of misandry - which is a weak argument and completely untrue for the overwhelming majority.

We have fathers, brothers, husbands, partners, sons, friends. We value them and recognise that men can and do face issues which don't affect women. But this doesn't change the fact that women face daily discrimination and danger from men which is entrenched within society, and that the same does not apply in reverse.

Examples:

• The requirement for gender* pay gap reporting took effect this year. The stats show that fewer than one in seven companies are paying a woman more than a man (BBC News). That's despite the existence of the Equal Pay Act 1970.

• An average of two women a week - A WEEK - are killed by a man that they know, most often their current or former domestic partner. Women's Aid runs an annual Femicide Census; the 2016 results show that 113 women were killed and 75% of them were murdered in their own homes.

*I dislike the terminology used here, because really it should say "The sex class pay gap".