I just peak-trans'd again!

Gibberty do you genuinely believe that transwomen have child birthing reproductive systems?

"When we say that sex is bimorphic Gibberty what is meant is that in order to reproduce, two entities and two entities alone are necessary, these being sperm and egg. There is no sperm-egg continuum with a 90& sperm/10% egg compound near the sperm end and a 90% egg/10%sperm compound near the egg end. It's just sperm and egg. Nothing else. "

Gametes are bimorphic indeed but multi-cellular humans are much more complex.

Stop debating with deluded people.

There is no hope for them.

To be fair, I have a lot more sympathy now I know the personal situation.

No the outliers prove that sex is not bimorphic

Said no scientist ever.

Also it is DIMORPHIC for the fiftieth fucking time.

Much as I hate to play the "you sound like a man" card (I tend to agree with Lass on this one), nonetheless in this case I'm starting to wonder if, never mind Gibberty's parnter, Gibberty themselves is trans - because surely no-one in possession of a genuine female reproductive system could be this dense about what it is to be in possession of a genuine female reproductive system.

(I know Gibberty has said they're "cis" (sic), but frankly, as the old adage has it, on the internet no-one knows you're a dog.)

Actually, scratch the last bit of that sentence. I just find it mind-blowing that anyone could be that dense, full stop. The "Parody from Viz/Agent Provocateur" theory is looking more plausible by the post.

If sex is not dimorphic, outliers could not exist.

Gibb Im quite intrested in your ideas about sexual attraction now.

Watch a programme like Geordie Shore. Or Love Island. These people all know what sex each other are, amd even what sex strangers are on first meeting.

So are they magic? Or just far more intelligent than you?

No they don't prove any such thing. Any more than that bloke limping around Sainsbury's proves that humans only have one leg.

Can you really not understand exceptions?

No the outliers prove that sex is not bimorphic

Someone doesn't understand probability and statistics.

It shows just the opposite. It shows that out of thousands of neonates, only a rare few will be born DISORDERED, meaning, NOT ORDERED or against the general rule of dimorphism.

"Oh come on. When TRAs on here are telling us that trans women [aka men] have 'birthing reproductive systems' - surely even you can't sit there nodding?"

Post surgery they are more female than male.

No the outliers prove that sex is not bimorphic

"An adult human with a child birthing reproductive system, even where this system is incomplete or not fully functioning." includes most trans women

Never has the phrase "you can't argue with stupid" seemed more apt.

Transwomen. Biologically male. In possession (prior to surgery) of penis, testicles and prostate. Not in possession of (prior or after surgery) uterus, cervix, vagina, clitoris (no matter what fancy tricks the surgeon performs to invert the penis and leave the glans in a position approximately corresponding to a woman's clitoris).

The thing is, the outwardly visible attributes of sex (before any medical intervention) are distinctly imperfect of inwardly experienced sex, things like brain chemistry

What the fuck does this sentence mean please?

Am incredibly ratty and my brain isn't working tonight.

The definition needs to be robust so that there is clarity. So no exceptions please.

As someone already explained to you, the OUTLIERS do not DISPROVE the rule. There are RARE abnormalities but the GENERAL rule remains that SEX. IS. BINARY. This is why we call those that don't fall into the rule DISORDERS. They are unusual, rare, and ABNORMAL.

That means that almost ALL humans are born Male or Female and it's why we call this DIMORPHISM.

There is clarity, scientific CLARITY.

Can we please just get it straight.

The word is dimorphic

Not bimorphic.

Thank you.

violent sex offenders are, or should be, segregated in prison and are irrelevant to the debate

I think the vulnerable women who have been forced to share prison with violent men would be pretty unhappy to be told they are irrelevent. I care about them, even if you don't

Exactly. Sex isn't bimorphic. All we can do is our best.

You have completely twisted what I said.

Sex is dimorphic

Go back and re-read the flipping post I took the trouble to write, even though I have a stinking headache today and have barely been able to get out of bed for three chuffing weeks.

When we say that sex is bimorphic Gibberty what is meant is that in order to reproduce, two entities and two entities alone are necessary, these being sperm and egg. There is no sperm-egg continuum with a 90& sperm/10% egg compound near the sperm end and a 90% egg/10%sperm compound near the egg end. It's just sperm and egg. Nothing else. Two discrete things. Intersex people are not a third sex. They do not have any other entity that they can reproduce with. This is what is meant by sex is bimorphic. Intersex people do not make human reproduction not bimorphic.

Sex is dimorphic. AIS etc are disorders, they exist because something has gone wrong with sexual development, resulting in ambiguity. That in no way proves that sex isn't dimorphic in fact the reverse as has been said.

"using fake science" it is not fake science

We had a bee swarm in the garden, it flew away.

Good thing bees stick to their sex identification, we'd have a bigger problem with bees if drones were self-iding as queens

Done!! Too tired to even spell!

violent sex offenders are, or should be, segregated in prison and are irrelevant to the debate

I've just down a twelve hour shift at work, and that was easier than making sense of anything Gibb has blathered about on this thread. Gibb, ever thought about joining your partner in therapy? I mean that, by the way.

"If you want an honest answer I would say someone with AIS is hard to define as absolutely strictly male or female - it's an intersex condition. The clue is in the name. In the case of Complete AIS in particular, it's more simple because the individual presents as female to the point of having female sex organs and a female bone structure, etc etc and so of course we treat these people as women. "

Exactly. Sex isn't bimorphic. All we can do is our best.

The thing is, the outwardly visible attributes of sex (before any medical intervention) are distinctly imperfect of inwardly experienced sex, things like brain chemistry. Essentially most trans women are intersex but in ways medicine did not understand twenty years ago.

This is classic feminism. How people say they are is much more important than how they look. Forget XX/XY. If someone says she is a a woman, that's the best we can do.

FM Gibb and Daim are hard work

They've just proved the error in letting men change their paperwork to say they are a woman.

I was generally a live and let live and my concern was violent sex offenders getting transferred to female prisons before coming here but there's nothing like a few TRAs (repeatedly) using fake science and logically inconsistent arguments to tell women they don't understand what being a woman is to make me feel the whole lot needs pulling down.

So I guess they're providing a service to women centred feminism in a way just not the way they intended to