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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I just peak-trans'd again!

312 replies

ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen · 11/06/2018 08:38

Who knew peak-transing could be like multiple orgasms?

Anyway just have to share my story. I was just removed from a feminist Facebook group after someone posted about Trans claiming “they are women” and I replied they weren’t.

Someone then called me a “terf” and “trash” and then > I < got removed despite the fact I didn't use any slurs, call anyone names, just stated that me agreeing that trans-women are women is tantamount to claiming 2+2=5 in Orwell's 1984.

I'd peak-trans'd long ago but this is the icing on my womanly (cause y'know, wimminz love to bake) cake.

OP posts:
Prawnofthepatriarchy · 12/06/2018 21:18

Another PMJ here, Whabylon. Well, more a writer.

I was thinking of a menstruator as being someone who has menstrual experience.

I saw a post the other day which described a TIM as a "woman with a trans history" So silly. But it did make me laugh. Perhaps we could call ourselves women with menstrual experience? .

RabbitsAreTasty · 12/06/2018 21:10

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CrustyCob · 12/06/2018 21:03

@HotRocker
That's shit. Saddened and angry for you.
I've seen a decades old support group, originally for parents of lesbians and gays, degenerate in the same way.

Stopped going in the end/ run out of town, and I was there with them over twenty years. It was taken over by the trans lobby and the blinkered.

Than goodness for here. I tend to lurk, and am heartened at the ability and insight of the women on these threads.

BoreOfWhabylon · 12/06/2018 20:50

Prawn what about post-menpausal journalists? Eh?

BoreOfWhabylon · 12/06/2018 20:48

BeeGees are bees

Remember the song "You should bee dancing" ?

HotRocker · 12/06/2018 20:48

It isn’t even transwomen doing this, it’s women, lesbians in fact. That’s what makes it extra galling. They’ve swallowed it whole, in all its vile misogynistic glory. Anyone who doesn’t agree get bullied and called names. I’m a pretty tough cookie but it’s a step beyond what I’m willing to put up with.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 12/06/2018 20:45

TeenageDrama and HotRock, I was wondering if it would be worth starting a group for "Cisgender Menstruators" + lesbians, journalists.

You could then tell any critics they're transphobic. But it can't be that easy. I'm sure I'm missing something.

BoreOfWhabylon · 12/06/2018 20:44

@CrustyCob

beesup Grin

Italiangreyhound · 12/06/2018 20:36

@HotRocker

'Another lesbian space lost to this transwomen are women bollocks.'

I'm sorry to hear that. Is it possible to start a new group and invite those who are female to join, from the original group?

LangCleg · 12/06/2018 20:32

Bees communicate via the medium of dance.

I am so, so, so, so, so tempted to include some remarks on bee reproduction and the chromosome count of the drones but I fear we might attract Daim. So I won't. I'll just say...

... spelling bees are bees!

TimeLady · 12/06/2018 20:30

I suspect the same tactics might be at play here too, hotrocker, and I commend those indefatigable posters who won't let the bullshitters have the last (wrong) word.

ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen · 12/06/2018 20:28

@HotRocker That's awful.

What strikes me each time this happens is that there are people who refuse to submit to this Orwellian double speak but they are bullied by those who scream louder and lie louder. It is really terrifying.

Thank god for Mumsnet.

OP posts:
WomanLifeIsGoodish · 12/06/2018 20:26

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HotRocker · 12/06/2018 20:22

I have been forced to leave an online lesbian message board that I have been part of for five years because it has become untenably toxic.
A few threads were created to talk about self ID, the erasure of lesbians and women’s safety in prison, but a gang of about three posters have made the environment so vicious, with all their bullying, threats, gaslighting and personal attacks that many of us have just packed up and left. I stuck it out as long as I could but today I just said fuck it, I don’t need that level of headfuckery in my life, it’s just not worth it.
Another lesbian space lost to this transwomen are women bollocks.

CrustyCob · 12/06/2018 20:15

@BoreofWhabylon
When bees dance, is it a beesup?
I always see them as more Morris Dancing than Pogo myself.

boatyardblues · 12/06/2018 20:14

This thread is giving me a headache. Can anyone stick me in a time machine back to the mid 80s please? The sexism was atrocious but at least you knew where you stood. This identity politics and the bending of facts is melting my brain. (Disclosure: I am bed with a migraine and my “fuck this shit” bar is on its lowest setting today.)

gendercritter · 12/06/2018 20:13

Another great video for you, this time on

Picassospaintbrush · 12/06/2018 20:08

Poor old Gibberty, what a life, having to churn out all that shite.

gendercritter · 12/06/2018 20:05

Confessions Shock

gendercritter · 12/06/2018 20:03

This thread has been making me cross so I've taken myself off to You tube to indulge in some nice videos on there.

And now this thread is just making me feel how wonderful the world is and how brilliant humans are for being so curious about the world that they've explored it in such depth over the last few hundred years, in particular.

Here are some birds of paradise for you.

ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen · 12/06/2018 20:01

Hi everyone! I hadn't realized this thread has had so many replies.

As it happens, another day, another insane Facebook group I can update you with. This one is for female journalists and has thousands of members. It was meant to be a place for women to help each other in media but, unsurprisingly, has slowly been hijacked. There are now regular updates telling us what we are and aren't allowed to talk about (oof: Handmaids Tale flashback there for a sec!)

First we were told we weren't allowed to start posts with "Hi ladies" or "Hey guys" because it was offensive. Then we were told posting about menstruation was "triggering".

Today someone posted about a trans-woman who was arrested for burning a flag at a protest and was "deadnamed" in the local paper (who went, presumably, from the police report) and was this ethical journalism? The consensus was he shouldn't have been named at all.

Only one journalist pointed out that it would actually be unethical to change editorial policy for one group of people and not use their legal names when they've been arrested & that the only other option is that no one who has been arrested and charged should be named in the local paper.

Obviously that would have wide ranging consequences. Everyone piled on absolutely trashing that person.

Then someone else said it was a disgrace the trans-woman in question was in a men's prison. I argued that was entirely right - a biological male shouldn't be in a women's prison otherwise why is there sex segregation in the first place? I was called "disgusting" and my comments deleted.

Surprise surprise it then turned into a witch hunt calling for "terfs" to be banned yada yada. Here are some choice comments from the thread - which, I repeat again, was started in a WOMEN'S GROUP - for your perusal:

I just peak-trans'd again!
I just peak-trans'd again!
OP posts:
birthdaycakeicecream · 12/06/2018 19:59

Thanks OldCrone for looking that up by the way, way upthread - very interesting!

Ereshkigal · 12/06/2018 19:56

Unless people have rare mosaicism they bear the same chromosomes in every cell of their "multicelled bodies", Gib. And XX and XY are really quite different genetically. Being female or male can dramatically affect your susceptibility to certain diseases and the symptoms you have, and even how certain drugs work on you.

Artemis7 · 12/06/2018 19:54

‘those who change their ID (almost?) all have gender dysphoria but (almost?) none of the transvestites will as defined by the DSM’

Not true transvestites can be diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

‘Also, when you get right down to it although a doctor might record a diagnosis of gender dysphoria in practice it is largely self-diagnosed so even those with a diagnosis have, to a certain degree, simply self-IDed.’

This is true which is why the GRA needs to go.

From the DSM V:

Gender Dysphoria (p456)

" Adolescents and adults with late-onset gen­der dysphoria frequently engage in transvestic behavior with sexual excitement. The
majority of these individuals are gynephilic or sexually attracted to other posttransition
natal males with late-onset gender dysphoria. A substantial percentage of adult maleswith late-onset gender dysphoria cohabit with or are married to natal females. After gen­der transition, many self-identify as lesbian."

"Natal femaleswith the late-onset form do not have co-occurring transvestic behavior with sexual excitement."

P702-704 ‘Transvestic Disorder

Transvestic disorder occurs in heterosexual (or bisexual) adolescent and adult males (rarely in females) for whom cross-dressing behavior generates sexual excitement and causes distress and/or impairment without drawing their primary gender into question. It is occasionally accompanied by gender dysphoria. An individual with transvestic disorder who also has clinically significant gender dysphoria can be given both diagnoses. In many cases of late-onset gender dysphoria in gynephilic natal males, transvestic behavior with sexual excitement is a precursor.’

‘Associated Features Supporting Diagnosis Transvestic disorder in men is often accompanied by autogynephilia (i.e., a male’s paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman). Autogynephilic fantasies and behaviors may focus on the idea of exhibiting female physiological functions (e.g., lactation, menstruation), engaging in stereotypically feminine behavior (e.g., knitting), or possessing female anatomy (e.g., breasts).’

‘Specifiers

The presence of fetishism decreases the likelihood of gender dysphoria in men with transvestic disorder. The presence of autogynephilia increases the likelihood of gender dysphoria in men with transvestic disorder.’

bd67th · 12/06/2018 19:50

@GibbertyFlibbert: Surgery and hormones change a number of those - enough to change the balance of sex (in biological terms) from male to female or vice versa.

Not so. Surgery and hormones don't undo a lifetime of testosterone-induced muscle hypertrophy, if they did, Fallon Fox wouldn't have hospitalised her female opponent in that fight and given her an orbital fracture. Surgery and hormones don't reduce the trans woman's height, so if they are 6 ft tall they are staying that tall. How many biological females do you know who are 6 ft tall? Testosterone causes the height differences between males and females. Very importantly, a lifetime of male socialisation and privilege isn't excised when the testes are.

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