I just peak-trans'd again!

That doesn't say all TW are AGP

"So flibberty glib what do xx and xy chromosomes represent if no female/male."

Nothing. Take a look at this page for example secondtype.tripod.com/ais.htm. Are they men or women on that page?

Gender expression is only one of the many trans types under the umbrella Daim. So clearly I'm not saying all am I? But they all get the same women's rights Daim. You can't pick and choose Daim. Either any man can also be a woman for any reason under the umbrella or non of them can? Which is it Daim?

But daim you keep pretending that NO transwomen are autogynaephiliacs.

Quite apart from everything else that is wrong in Gibberty Flibbert's post (slippery slope my arse) - men identifying as women do not face 'all the disadvantages' that we as women face in society. Not by a very long chalk.

They may well face a different set of disadvantages and discrimination, but by simply saying they feel like a woman, does not magically give them the same experience in our patriarchal society that we and our daughters have, and I cannot believe that you think it does.

As soon as we start saying a trans woman isn't a woman because her body is this or not, who is next? Intersex women? Butch lesbians with loads of tattoos? It is a very slippery slope.

This is so arse about face.

Sex is binary. So it's not a slippery slope it's a you are/you aren't.

Gender? Well who the fuck knows? Slippery slope? Rainbow unicorn continuum of stupidity?

Please stop using lesbians to justify the shitty stuff TRAs are doing IN PARTICULAR TO LESBIANS.

Some Autogynephiliacs are cross dressers, it doesn't mean all cross dressers have Autogynephilia

Some criminals are transgender, it doesn't mean all trans people are criminals.

Oh dear goddd. AGP is a specifically male fetish. Women don't have it. Murder is, 90% of the time, committed by men. Sexually violent crime - 98% of it committed by men. However they identify.

No one, literally no one, is saying all transwomen are AGP. But many AGP individuals identify as trans, also cross dressers, transvestites, and people like Philip Bunce who enter the ladies one day and the gents the next. Clearly not gender dysphoric. And obviously not women!

Women have no way of telling whether a man is a rapist, or whether transwoman is getting aroused by presenting as female.

All they know is that sex segregation reduces the risks of encountering either.

Stop pretending these don't exist. Or telling women off for mentioning them, ffs.

Oh oh thats me, thats me. Tank Girl complete with DM's army surplus shirt, torn fish nets and lots of black eye liner. Snogged everyone I fancied, regardless of sex.
I really felt like gender was being erased and the future looked bright and now 20+ cough years later am wondering what the heck went wrong

Yep. I'm at a loss with how 'none of this stuff matters, just be authentically you' became 'all of this stuff matters, or you can't authentically be you'.

The universe needs to bring back David Bowie ASAP.

Daimbars and some men like to perform woman doesnt mean they are a woman

So flibberty glib what do xx and xy chromosomes represent if no female/male. If a person is trans this means they were born either male or female but choose to live as the gender of the opposite. However there is no male or female brain as far as scientific studies go and each brain is individual the act of being a man or woman comes down to socialisation according to your observed sex. A man can never become a woman he will always be male, even if he can do a feminine gender stereotype better than we can. Imagine if medical research wanted to test the effects of a drug for the benefit of women and a bunch of biological men were the test subjects, do you think it might be credible given the different size, bone structure hormones in a male vs female body.

Oh oh thats me, thats me. Tank Girl complete with DM's army surplus shirt, torn fish nets and lots of black eye liner. Snogged everyone I fancied, regardless of sex.
I really felt like gender was being erased and the future looked bright and now 20+ cough years later am wondering what the heck went wrong

Picasso I don't think your repeated insistence that being trans is linked autogynephelia is doing you or GC feminism any favours.

It's clear you are being a GF but to humour you:

Some Autogynephiliacs are cross dressers, it doesn't mean all cross dressers have Autogynephilia

Some criminals are transgender, it doesn't mean all trans people are criminals.

Some murderers like eating candy floss, it doesn't mean everyone who eats candy floss is a murderer.

Butch lesbians with loads of tattoos? It is a very slippery slope.

No it isn't, and would you stop trying to use butch lesbians as some supposedly unassailable example -- because we all know we all get mistaken for men all of the time and we make straight women nervous cos we letch at them in the showers.........

Even the most wonderfully butch women I have ever met, the ones where even I had to look twice or thrice to check is that a woman or is it a man? They share something with me that no male ever will or ever can, no matter how much surgery/hormones/vocal training or passing privilege. Female biology. Even the sexiest butchiest butch is as female as I am, and as female as no male ever can be.

Stop putting surface and appearance above actual facts. And stop using butch lesbians as examples -- although I'd hazard a guess that quite a few of the gender critical dykes on here are actually butch. And proper butch, not the I wear trousers and have short hair therefore I'm butch of the professionally gender-non-conforming...........

My mother has neither a passport nor driving licence. She never wears skirts or dresses. Same for make-up/perfume. She can swear like a sailor at times. But she is a woman because she has XX chromosomes. She doesn't have to 'perform' being a woman in order to be one.
I pretty much live in skirts/dresses (I'm petite and finding trousers that fit is a nightmare!). Wear make-up/perfume most days. All my official documents say 'female'. But I am a woman because I have XX chromosomes-not because of how I look or act.

@BettyDuMonde totally agree with you on this:

"I feel so sad for the current teenage generation. When I was my son's age (early 90s) dozens of my male friends wore dresses and eyeliner (Kurt Cobain/Robert Smith inspired) and almost all of my female friends experimented with headshaving and army boot wearing (Tank Girl style) and everyone snogged everyone and no one gave a hoot about labels for sexuality etc."

It's really very simple. We want a society where women are recognised as women and have the rights that they have fought hard for. Including the right to privacy and respect, the right to fairness in sport, and the right to defend their rights.

Nothing to do with having surgery or changing driving licences

Reality is transphobic now

Most of the worlds population must be transphobic as generally people dont really believe men can change sex. Transwomen are men who wish to be treated or percieved as women. Doesnt mean they are. Some transwomen even have gender dysphoria yet still know they are male. It might be unpleasant/mean to say to a transwomans face you are male. But having a broader discussion about biological facts and the actual meaning of words is not transphobic

As soon as we start saying a trans woman isn't a woman because her body is this or not, who is next? Intersex women? Butch lesbians with loads of tattoos?

Yes, this is a nonsense. I'm covered in tattoos but I gave birth to two biological children (and have the c section scars through the tattoos to prove it).

I am a woman due to my chromosomes and primary and secondary sex characteristics. My tattoos were a choice I made at adulthood, they don't affect or illustrate my biology.

Gibb, trying to say intersex women or lesbians are the same as men is idiotic. There's no "slippery slope" argument. We're talking about two sexes.

Men aren't women. That's because they're men. If I or any other person was dug up centuries from now one thing anthropologists would be able to state with certainty would be our sex. Not our gender.

Rufus if you had been hanging out with a gang of people for years and they suddenly started saying racist and homophobic things would you go 'hang on, what you're saying isn't right. I don't agree with you' or would you just stop taking to them and watch as they tried to persuade more and more people to be racist and homophobic?

Using lesbians and butch or tattooed women as a yardstick for accepting biological men as women too is really fucking rude.