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Original poster

How do you cope with very unfeminist views in your proximity?

35 replies

Justrunwithit · 10/06/2018 22:09

I have always been very live and let live in my views since I come from an area where conflict has been rife and so have always tried to be tolerant. But now I have an au pair (not because we are posh, or because we are exploitative, it’s a very good gig!) who is from a very narrow, patriarchal religious background and I’m finding it hard to cope. Much harder than I thought!!! E.g. her church thinks that we should all be in mourning, as they are, for the repeal of the eighth amendment in Ireland. Women are child-havers and homeschoolers, men are the head of the church and family etc. No secular education or college or anything. Against gay marriage. Basically critical thought against what the menz tell you is bad.

What gentle reading would you suggest to challenge and provoke thought? Have also asked this on the reading thread? I guess I feel like it’s not my place to say her beliefs are wrong, just as I’d be outraged if she told me mine were, but we are discussing reading quite a lot and I’d like some good but introductory books that suggest that equality and bodily autonomy can be a thing?

NB I have done a lot of Christian reading in my time and attended a heavily Christian school and have signed up to read some Christian novels so it’s not that I am just like ‘you are wrong. Here’s why.’ Although I’m sure that’s what we both secretly think!

Although she is very sweet and didn’t challenge at all my diatribe re the repeal the 8th campaign when she asked me what I thought. I only know HOW against it her church is because I looked at their website and was like Shock Shock Shock #gilead

OP posts:
Original poster
Justrunwithit · 10/06/2018 23:26

Okay, I’m sorry it came across that way. Something I read today I found very upsetting in the way that it pertained to women and I reacted to that.

Thanks for sharing your view.

OP posts:
LassWiADelicateAir · 10/06/2018 23:23

Basically critical thought against what the menz tell you is bad

You lost me with the "menz" comment. Critical thinking and the use of "menz" are a contradiction.

You come across as quite patronising and condescending.

Original poster
Justrunwithit · 10/06/2018 23:16

Powershower we may beckon from the same hood. Keep ‘er lit.

OP posts:
Original poster
Justrunwithit · 10/06/2018 23:16

Okay, that was soooo waffly. Let me rephrase:

Sheltered young woman in your employ says, ‘right, Mary, what’s next on the reading list?!’

Do you say a) ‘... What Katy Did?’

b) The Power

OP posts:
powershowerforanhour · 10/06/2018 23:13

"Take My Hands" about Dr Mary Verghese might interest her.

Original poster
Justrunwithit · 10/06/2018 23:07

Sorry, I wrote all the post below then reread my OP and realised the obvious omission I made! I come from a book-heavy background and she’s ASKING me for reading recommendations.

Yeah, I totally see all your points, and I haven’t really shared ANY of my views with her, apart from the repeal one before I knew her church’s view. But she explicitly asked me, so I said that I very much supported repeal because xyz.

BUT, she is a very questioning young woman, and I really admire her for upping sticks and putting herself in a situation where she is outside of that background... I guess because on some level she is interested in other points of view (not necessarily because she wants to, or ever will change hers). For whatever reason my background has A LOT of reading and books in it, and as I was saying on he reading thread I just started, I’ve gjven her completely inoffensive things so far, things I thought she’d like such as I capture the castle, Rebecca and the pursuit of love, and was telling her that while I don’t normally read a lot of what is in the USA explicitly promoted as ‘christian fiction’, I thought she’d love Jane Eyre as it has a very interesting and passionate Christian theme.

I have always identified as a feminist without doing a great deal of formal feminist reading. I guess where my hand was hovering was over Fingersmith, one of my favourite books which I think she would love but am I being deliberately provocative given its gay themes?! And also the Handmaid’s tale, which I think I WILL suggest but with a disclaimer that she might find it a bit too controversial.

It’s interesting and I guess it massively lets me off the hook that you feel it’s my duty as employer NOT to be trying to be too educational. Even if she’s asking. I have always surfed the safe and non-committal line but was suddenly like, am
I being a massive hypocrite, not saying ‘no, sorry I don’t really believe that having twelve children is woman’s highest honour etc’. So now I feel much happier that I have been reticent and you have talked me down off a kind of ledge.

(I hasten to add I haven’t been sitting her down with an annotated de Beauvoir and then testing her on it. I’ve never actually read de Beauvoir).

So if she’s asking me for recommendations, should I just stick to the safe course then? E.g. the other day I had Plain Truth by Jodi Picoult which is a nice safe commmercial read but interesting (Amish girl has baby and baby disappears) and the aforesaid Fingersmith both at my fingertips and she has asked for another rec - which would you choose?!

This all makes me think that I might start a new thread for myself about great feminist reads. Or is there already one that anyone could link to?

Thanks all!

OP posts:
MistressDeeCee · 10/06/2018 22:42

Given the employer/employee dynamic, I think you should leave this alone. I'm surprised you're having chats to the extent you feel the need to seek out reading material for her.

What are you going to do once sourced and given to her? Check she's read them? Invest in continual debate with a view to her turning her back on her church?

What if she doesn't change her views and doesn't want to leave her church, but feels she may lose her job if she doesn't speak and think in the way you want her to?

Her views are very rigid. I'm not sure you're going about all this in the right way tho. If there is even a right way. She's your employee.

speakingwoman · 10/06/2018 22:30

You can’t as you are her employer.

SilverDoe · 10/06/2018 22:28

I was going to post similar (about dealing with people in your own life and social circle with really off putting antifeminist views) after I ruined my Saturday talking to my partners friend, who I had really got on with and had a lot of shared interests, but it turned out he is (though he adamantly denies it) a fully fledged MRA.

It’s really really hard, I’ve learned, to change peoples’ views by just debating their actual views. It’s more important to address the deeper reasons and in general to try and educate people with reputable information and real life counter parts to your theories. And then still all you can do is hope that they come to the conclusions that are evident by themselves.

I understand what you are going through. It’s really hard when you meet normal kind people who you get along with and then find out they hold some opinions that you find truly troubling, and not just opinions you don’t agree with.

The guy I was talking to kept saying he didn’t label himself an MRA and getting cross with me for saying he “aligned with their views” even though he absolutely did. And that is scary to learn of someone frankly.

I’m

MrsTerryPratchett · 10/06/2018 22:22

I think the power dynamic is so difficult from you to her that you should be extra tolerant. Living with someone who is your employer... really hard. She knows what you think. That's enough.

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