Male colleague - views on changing name

I also think what many people are failing to recognise is that signalling belonging to men, for women and children within a patriarchy, can be pretty crucial for survival and in order to avoid destitution.

Women being able to makes choices of any kind does not just depend on the theory but actually on the real life consequences of said choice.

Yes, there is a lot of unthinking tradition involved but where thought is put in to it it is not as simple as ‘keeping your birth surname is the only feminist choice’.

"We intended to have kids (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered)

I really don't get this one as an insurmountable argument."

I wasn't trying to make an "insurmountable argument".

I was trying to explain why I did it, personally, as a PP said she was interested.

I have discussed my personal reasons so would be grateful not to get attacked personally for the decision I made. I am more than happy to discuss in a theoretical sense but I posted my reasons in good faith, knowing as I do that it is a peculiar and not very suportable decision for a woman who has been feminist since year dot. And knowing that some poeple migth enjoy having a go. Still, I posted it as PP said she was genuinely interested.

I'd like dd to keep her name...she probably will

Wouldnt argue with that lass

But sometimes people just dont think of changing their name

I do know a couple who got married and she changed her name to his, then there was a massive family problem and they all changed their names to hers

Thats got nothing to do with the subject at hand...but i always think it was handy they had the same letter at the beginning of their surnames

*collude

I think it is dubious to believe that fighting patriarchy via individual choices within it rather than fighting for structural changes does anything other than collide with patriarchy TBH.

Me too - completely concur with all that Lass has said!

Totally agree with all of your posts Lass. One hundred percent.

I don’t see keeping your birth surname, which was passed down through patrilineal patriarchal culture, or picking another surname which was passed down through patrilineal patriarchal culture as doing anything useful re either of those things TBH.

I don’t believe ‘anything will be done’ if women started keeping birth names en masse either.

In what way is the issue of names anything other than a ‘making choices within the context of patriarchy’ issue or a ‘tinkering round the edges’ issue?

I don’t think you can proclaim individual name choices either feminist or anti-feminist TBH.

What you can criticise is patrilineal/patriarchal practices...

But nothing will be done about the patrilineal practices while women collude with them

I considered saying it was collusion; it is.

My personal belief is that people, where they put some thought into something, tend to make the choice they feel is best for them

The best choice oddly being that in vast majority of cases the women gives up her name.

I disagree with everything in your post Offred. None of these patrilineal practices are ever going to go away if on the one hand you decry them as patrilineal practices but on the other hand towing the line of this patrilineal practice was just the best choice for the individual.

"I really don’t get this type of feminism that involves picking apart individual women’s choices rather than attacking patrilineal practices (like names being passed through men) or patriarchal institutions (like marriage)." But nothing will be done about the patrilineal practices while women collide with them. And it's not "picking apart other women's choices" - it's pointing out when those choices are not feminist ones. Feminism does not require us to support everything other women do, or assert that a choice is a feminist one just because a woman makes it. Feminism is more complex and robust than that.

My DSis is marrying next year, her fiancé is taking her name.

But that very seldom happens. The overwhelming practice of most married couples is for the woman to take the man's name. The societal expectation is so pervasive that it really is not a true choice for many women.

I really don’t get this type of feminism that involves picking apart individual women’s choices rather than attacking patrilineal practices (like names being passed through men) or patriarchal institutions (like marriage).

My personal belief is that people, where they put some thought into something, tend to make the choice they feel is best for them.

It’s quite pointless IMO to be seeing a particular kind of individual choice as feminist or not when all the choices are made within the context of a patriarchal society.

It's none of his business but taking your husband's name on marriage is an anti-feminist choice.

But there must logically the odd people who have a bloody good reason to change

Of course there are. The ones with awful names or awful families but this narrow idea of changing your name because you are getting married presumably acts as a deterrent to any of them changing it just because they want to.

Do people know that you can change your name at any time just because - no reason needed?

He is outrageous in his approach and behaviour. But changing your name on marriage is not a feminist choice. That does not mean that if you change your name you are not a feminist. But is does mean that on this occasion, you have made a non feminist choice. As we all do sometimes for a myriad reasons.

We intended to have kids (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered)

I really don't get this one as an insurmountable argument.

I think the reasons why are varied

However

The vast vast amount of women who change to their husbands name are doing it from non feminist patriarchal reasons

But there must logically the odd people who have a bloody good reason to change

Touble is because 90% do it 'cos its tradition" the 10% bloody good reason get lumped in

I am not one of the 10%....although i did have my reasons and dh wanted to change both our surnames

To 'wolf' so I probably had a lucky escape

They could , without it being a personal attack as was the case here, actually consider the absurdity of why this practice is a given

They could and should consider it. They can also put their newfound enlightenment into practice in their own lives. However, they do not need to be debating the issue with and at women. This issue is for women to resolve and women who - at present - choose (a loaded word, I know) to change their name do not need to be told what to do by yet another Man Who Knows Best.

And while clearly it was her choice to make I wonder why Victoria Coren--Mitchell has that name but her husband remains David Mitchell?

And it would have avoided her David Mitchell being confused with the considerably more talented other famous David Mitchell.

I can answer.

Feminist since little girl before I knew what it was.

Never particularly wanted kids, no ideas about fancy weddings, being a bride etc.

No-one was more surprised than me when I met DH and we got married and I took his surname

Reasons were:

• We intended to have kids (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered)
• His name was already double barrelled so adding another name wasnt going to work
• Thought about him taking my name but his name is much more important to him for reasons that are totally understandable while I'm meh about mine, just a name
• Thought about staying as we were and kids having either my name or his - I wanted us all to have the same name though - not sure why and obviosuly it's fine for families who don't, for me though, I wanted to, or at least I wanted same name as my kids. To have different name to kids felt even more patriarchal - I wanted them connected to ME! (Not saying that women with different names to kids are not connected I'm trying to answer the question honestly about how I felt)
• Thought about kids having my name, didn't even mention it as I thought however lovely a chap is, this is a stretch, especially as people WILL assume they are not his

So, I changed my surname.

Hope none of that has offended anyone - that's how I came to my decision.

In the scheme of things - and thinking about "identity" - I don't feel that strongly about names. Not my first name really either although it would be confusing for a bit if it were changed, I wouldn't mind. I'm me whatever my name is - I just don't really care that much.

There's no brilliant or easy answer, which is why it's always being talked about

There is a perfectly simple answer. We all have names- why is there any need to change that name just because one is getting married?

If anyone hates their name - change it. No one has to wait until they get married to do so.

It is not uncommon for example for men with abusive fathers, or fathers from whom they want to distance themselves, to use their mother's surname. Ronan Farrow being a very high profile example but ordinary men do that too.

FFS how is names a bigger issue than marriage itself?!

I hated mine. It reminded me of my father. I was too chicken to change it prior to marriage.

On paper, we all know it’s crap, but in practice? Not so black and white. We are imperfect, and that’s okay.