Soul man

It was a general comment about transgenderism, Rat. I thought the the subject of the thread was an "irrelevant" and "tenuous" comparison, "not in the least bit realistic" and a "reeaally long shot"?

*Everything else is just noise.×

....or the subject of the thread.

I second BarrakerBarmer

That's the crux of it.

In my view men will never be women. If you're born male you are MALE. There's no experience to be had that's remotely similar to a female. Even if a man 'passes' to most, he's not spent a single second in a female body, constricted from birth by gender and sex.

Men are never women, no matter the depth of their conviction, and women's right to their own boundaries is sacrosanct.

This is the heart of the matter. Everything else is just noise.

So... there may or may not be a link between the film's protagonist and some conceptual (probably rather dim) pretend-trans person... but not distinguishing between different "types" of trans people any tenuous link is, um, irrelevant?

I don't much care to distinguish between men who are genuine in their (false) belief that they are women, and those who are disingenuous in claiming they are women.

Neither are women, and the net result on actual women is equally negative for both groups of men.

Men are never women, no matter the depth of their conviction, and women's right to their own boundaries is sacrosanct.

I'm lost as to exactly what you're saying that has to do with how likely someone is to pretend to be the opposite sex in order to take advantage of some opportunity (e.g. A scholarship, as per the film, or sport in later example). I did try and find an interpretation which kind of made sense in that context, but now I'm even more confused!

What the bloody hell has the kinky world of sissification got to do with this film about a bloke taking tanning pills to get a scholarship for ethnic minorities??

Fetlife is to be avoided but if you want to research the matter, Rat, that is where you would start.

@IAMcorbyndallas I can't think of any parallels whereby a lad identifies as something he isn't in order to win a prize or scholarship. Can anyone else think of one?

Benjamin Butterworth, who self-ided as black to get to an LGBT student conference and deprived a black student of that place.

I'm not saying that fetishists are humiliated by their kink, I'm saying that humiliation is their kink. Have you not explored forced feminisation?

It doesn't matter whether you buy it or not, Rat. It's blatantly true.

So you say it's "blatantly true"; does that mean don't interning to defend it?

You said that humiliation is a really big motivation to transition for AGP men.

Where are you getting this notion that "AGP" men are humiliated by their kink? Even in your very own statement there is nothing to they're humiliated by it - you imply they revel in it!

I have some small experience of kinky cross dressing myself (it's not my bag personally) and honestly, as a kink, I'd call it mainstream.

I'm not ruling out that the odd RARE person would transition so as to indulge their own personal fetish, but you raised this in response to my saying the stigma and hardship on those transitioning would outweigh the benefits if it were undertaken solely to pursue an advantage. You said there was the added push of "AGP" men's own humiliation... I'm not seeing evidence of that humiliation. Quite the contrary.

"When I first became aware of the sexual motives men have for transition"

Ah yes - that's one of my favourite bits of TERF logic - at 3, you're a poor innocent confused child, same at 4, and 5, and 6 and so on and so on until the morning of your 18th birthday, at which point you magically become a filthy sex pervert!

"I no longer wondered why 80% of TIM keep their dicks."

There it is again - at 8 it's "Oh you poor child, you must keep your penis!" then at 18 it's "Yuk - he wants to keep his penis!" But you should do your research - 87% have either had or want vaginoplasty:

www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_full.pdf

"I'm not sure it's relevant that some women sexually abuse others unless I'm missing something."

You are - the Newland case was an example of someone pretending to be someone they are not in order to take advantage, which is the subject of the OP.

The other links are in reply to claims it's rarity makes it negligible.

It doesn't matter whether you buy it or not, Rat. It's blatantly true.

When I first became aware of the sexual motives men have for transition I spent quite a lot of time online reading the words of TIM as they talked about all the things that turned them on. Once seen, never forgotten.

By the end of my journey of discovery I no longer wondered why 80% of TIM keep their dicks. They need them to wank themselves stupid over sissyfication porn and other fetishes.

You're ignoring the fact that humiliation is a really big motivation for transition for some AGP men

Yes. Which is why we have to put up with them endlessly reducing us to the sissy porn vision of women.

@wakame, nowhere in that Scientific American article does it give a ratio of female perpetrators to male ones. Nor does it indicate what proportion of female victims have a female perp. So it doesn't actually prove anything.

The BBC news piece: as I said, commonplace crime isn't newsworthy. Men raping women only makes the news if something else about the case is unusual.

The Scientific American one that is.

That was a really interesting article WAK, thanks.

Another one on the BBC News only 3 hours ago:

www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-44416307

Maybe it's not as rare as you think.

bd I'm not sure I'd trade any amount of success for the hard time those people get here and elsewhere. It would drive me to the brink of despair I think.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-victimization-by-women-is-more-common-than-previously-known/

bd I'm saying that even when they DO pass they experience additional indirect negativity, such a sense of societal rejection of trans people for example, and that that is ON TOP OF the direct negativity they might experience for passing as female.

@RatRolyPoly The thing is the act of "moving between the two" is so very stigmatised in our culture that any advantage you might retain you lose twice over in the moving.

Looking at Caitlyn Jenner, Lily Madigan, India Willoughby, et al, I'd beg to differ.