Transgender man gives birth and wants to be recorded as baby's father

Also the birth certificate isn't just about the parents, its to record the name and date of birth of the child. Obvious I know!

Having looked at the government guidance it seems a little more complex than that. Same sex male couples do need to get a parental order to gain parental responsibility. Same sex female couples can apparently both be on the birth certificate but only if they have had donor insemination or fertility treatment. Presumably because the father can be identified via the donor process if necessary.

How can this be so difficult?

The person who provided the egg is the child's mother.

The person who provided the sperm is the father.

That's all the is to it..

“Gay parents don't seek to change or replace birth certificates, they might get an adoption order or gain parental responsibility another way. They aren't recorded as the birth mother (or father if a lesbian couple)”

This isn’t true. Since same sex marriage became legal, the legal spouse of the mother is recorded as the second parent, whether same sex or not. (I think this is good thing btw.)

The long term consequences of allowing this are worrying. So Mr X decides to identify as transwoman whilst Mrx X is pregnant. Will he have the right to be recorded as baby X's mother? Will Mrs X have any rights will baby X?. How will we track genetic disorders?

What is the purpose of a birth certificate? What is it recording?

Pallisers I don't think any of that is currently a right for a child. As far as I know they have a right to access their birth certificate as it's a public record, but they don't have a right over what is stated on it.

From what I've read (I don't know the full story!) we don't know that the child is being told it doesn't have a mother, there is every chance that it will be told the truth about what happened and be given an explanation about what was recorded on the birth certificate.

The baby does have a mother - sadly it is one with a fucked up attitude and the willingness to put their ego and narcissism ahead of their child.

Glad I am old and will probably be pushing up the daisies by the time the law suits starts and the "experts' pushing the trans agenda start parroting "lessons will be learned"......

If you're a mammal and you have given birth then you are female. The state shouldn't be in the business of validating people's delusions.

A few people have mentioned that the rights of the baby have not been considered. What are the rights that the baby has been denied?

The right to be told the truth about his mother and father. The right to have HIS birth certificate (it isn't his parent's certificate, it is that of the child) reflect the actual reality - the truth.

Over in Ireland 129 people were just told that their birth certificates were a fraud perpetrated by the state and in fact they were adopted - the names put down as their birth parents were in fact their adoptive parents. Aspirational and false birth certificates have no place in modern society.

The baby is being told that he doesn't have a mother. he does. every human who has ever been conceived on this planet has a mother. Potentially that baby will not know which of his parents gave him his mitochondrial dna (well of course he will know - everyone knows, it is just an elaborate charade that we aren't supposed to call out - but that isn't the point)

if a birth certificate doen't tell the truth, then what is the point of it?

Poor kid. Does the child have no rights whatsoever in this?

"I hate this ... in these kind of situations the child's rights have to be paramount - no centring men or women but THE BABY .... they are not an accessory but a person with their own rights..."

Agree. But we don't do that. We don't do it for adoption, surrogacy or where ova and mitochondria come from different women. I actually think babies should have the absolute right to have their full genetic ancestry recorded. I would support a law on that so that mothers must identify the source of sperm, ovum (nucleus) and mitochondria. If necessary, we should by law mandate DNA tests to establish the source of sperm.

But, under present practices, I would support the guy's request

Ereshkigal that makes sense. However that is about legal responsibility - it wouldn't be that a right of the child had been denied would it?

Perhaps birth certificates should be changed to say Parent 1 and Parent 2, where Parent 1 is the person who gestated and gave birth, and Parent 2 is the person who provided the sperm (or blank if Parent 1 doesn't want to or cannot give details).

Everyone would know exactly what that means. Recording a fiction as a matter of public record seems wrong to me.

There is a difference. Sometimes it's not known who the father was. This baby was conceived of a woman's egg and gestated and birthed by a woman who is raising him as a single parent. A mother has automatic parental responsibility.

there was a ruling in germany this year . the other way round, where a TIM wanted to be registered as mother and was refused.

I don't think that is a right of the child is it? A father doesn't need to be named on the birth certificate at all I don't think.

To have his biological father on his birth cert for one?
To have the truth on his bc

A few people have mentioned that the rights of the baby have not been considered. What are the rights that the baby has been denied?

I can’t answer any of those questions as I’m too drunk having attended the funeral of my maternal grandmother. The women who’s body facilitated the growth of the egg that became me.

I’m not inthe mood to facilitate female erasure today. Nope, not happening. That child was born of a female body - they should have the right to have that legally recorded.

Oh FGS. This shows what happens when you allow nonsense into law in the first place.

Yes, it's like Sir Walter Scott's "tangled web."

Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive

The delusion, narcissism and self centred ness of the parents does not bode well for the well-being of the child. The parents have responsibilities to the child. The child has the rights.

still wonder about the baby of the male bodied person who took a cocktail of drugs in order to produce a trickle of 'milk' to 'chest feed' the baby with. I wonder about this too - a friend took the morning after pill a while back and was warned to pump and dump for x days after. Fuck alone knows what kind of medical quack allowed prescription of such drugs to someone breastfeeding men have breasts too ffs, call a breast a breast a baby for their own gain.

It is fucked up. It’s like the ultimate expression of individualism and narcissism.

What would it do to a psyche to be brought up to believe that you, unlike 100% of human beings were not conceived and gestated inside a female?

How would a child navigate learning that they were in fact conceived and gestated inside a female, but the outward recognition of this fact would likely result in the parental alienation?

Are children responsable for the validation of an adults identity?

Should a child be forced to colude in a lie that pertains to their very existence in order for their parent to avoid confronting their own dissonance?

I'd say most laws would agree with that one. Or they don't need to a really say it because - is bloody obvious!

In English law the person who gives birth to a child is its mother