Baby could become first person born in England or Wales without a legal mother

I don't understand what the fuss is about? Why would the child have any disadvantage from their parent being recorded as their father on the birth certificate? Why is it an issue that there is no mother? Is it any different to children that are lovingly raised by two gay father's where there is no mother around? As long as the child is raised with all the love and support and nurture they need I don't see any problem.

SameTerf I think someone linked to it upthread

Eresh, I'm not sure you've noticed, but I haven't at any point ever indicated that I'm pro self-ID. As I've said before, I have concerns and questions, which is one reason I'm here on these boards more actively then I used to be.

I'm really not careless of women's or children's rights at all, so you're wrong on that front.

Is it possible that because I speak in defence of trans people when particular, and to me quite horrible and unnecessary, generalisations are posted about them, you have assumed a whole lot of things about me based on that?

Wasn’t there a similar case in Germany recently? Iirc the judge ruled in favour of reality!

Where are the child’s rights in all this? What about the right not to be gaslit your whole life?

In Humpty Dumpty world no one cares apparently. I don't think this level of deluded narcissism in a parent should escape the notice of social services.

I think the child's rights should come first here, and that should include the right to have the correct information on their birth certificate, which is after all a legal document. I think this is in line with unmarried fathers being allowed to apply to be named on the birth certificate against the mothers wishes. It isn't just about what the mother wants.
What role the parents adopt in raising the child is a different issue, and not really relevant at this point.

placemats is someone saying otherwise? I don't think I've seen that, but maybe I missed it somewhere.

Did you mean to be so rude?

Yes.

Where are the child’s rights in all this? What about the right not to be gaslit your whole life? That child should be made a ward court and have an independent advocate to look after their interests as their ‘parent’ clearly doesn’t give a shit!

No I don’t give a shit if I sound bigoted, right wing, religious, whatever. If you can’t put your child’s needs above your own narcissistic attention seeking wants you’ve no business being a parent.

Let's be very clear about this. A trans man can NEVER produce sperm and a trans woman can NEVER produce an egg.

Biological fact.

Yet again the only time a trans man ever gets any traction on the trans debate is when they give birth. No one ever sees them as 'man of the year'. How galling must this be to trans women?

Why do I see this ending as parent 1 and parent 2 being listed on birth certificates?

Eresh "I think you're quite stunningly naive and careless of women's and children's rights"

Wow. Did you mean to be so rude?

Freia "I would care if this decision legally disadvantages the kid in any way, or sets a precedent which could be used to disadvantage women in future (I'm thinking about surrogates, donors etc). I've no idea where the law on this stands but I hope that it's something the court would consider when judging this particular case."

Totally agree, and I too hope the legal teams are poking into the corners of possible ramifications, especially for the women you mention. Massively important.

Picasso, if you fancy going back to ignoring me again, feel free. No high-horse riding going on, just discussion of things that posters have raised on the thread. Happy to be providing your entertainment for the evening though.

There was a similar case in Germany last year. It was decided that biological reality had to be recorded on the birth certificate.

“ The municipal court in Schöneberg and Berlin’s Supreme Court both argued that his request has no standing under current law. The German civil code states, “The mother of a child is the woman who gave birth to it.”

intomore.com/impact/german-court-rejects-transgender-mans-request-to-be-recognized-as-childs-father/338e51b08f604abe

Watching Rat and SuperDandy get on their high horse to berate everyone else for being on a high horse is always amusing.

Lol quite

I'm sorry you find my position so unthinkable

Yes I do. I'm not going to pretend that I don't. I think you're quite stunningly naive and careless of women's and children's rights.

My other horse is a giraffe.

Watching Rat and SuperDandy get on their high horse to berate everyone else for being on a high horse is always amusing.

Never gets dull.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine " so if you don't call me dad it is literal violence and I will kill myself"

I think any parent who said this to their child an utter fuckwit who will likely fuck up their kid by saying that. I also think it's very wrong of you to conflate trans parenting with being the sort of person who would threaten suicide to their child over anything.

And Eresh, I don't know what you want from me other, than to go away and stop posting on this topic. I don't agree with something a poster said, so I responded. It would be nice if you could back off just a little bit with the digs.

I'm sorry you find my position so unthinkable, and I realise there's likely nothing I could say that's you would consider the content of before dismissing it, but there are lots of other people listening and reading and posting who do want to hear more than just the hardcore GC viewpoint.

I do think the parenting choices are relevant - God knows I felt I suffered enough when mum chose to dye her hair red and wore a Persian lamb hat one winter (with her green tights).

I couldn't care less how what the parent chooses to call themselves to their kid, or how they choose to explain the kid's genesis to it. That's a parenting choice and God knows we all make questionable ones.

I would care if this decision legally disadvantages the kid in any way, or sets a precedent which could be used to disadvantage women in future (I'm thinking about surrogates, donors etc). I've no idea where the law on this stands but I hope that it's something the court would consider when judging this particular case.

Side bar - writing without gendered pronouns really inhibits clarity!