The Simple Problem with Those Anti-Trans Protesters' Big Stunts

When someone tells you that your pro-woman stance is anti-trans they aren’t telling you that they think you are anti-trans. They are projecting their own position onto you. They are telling you their pro-trans stance is anti-woman. Their stance starts with anti-woman and resolves in pro-trans (though would be pro anything else if it put women down). They can’t understand that your pro-woman stance starts and ends with pro-woman so they project all sorts of their own feelings onto you.

THIS! Thanks SwearyG for pointing out the reversal we are up against.

Over on the Reddit /R/ainbow sub, they're saying the lesbians involved in the protest aren't actually lesbians, because they must be transmen

OP drradfem wrote:
"After the amazing protest at London Pride, please watch and share Julia Long's recent talk on lesbian erasure"

m.youtube.com/watch?v=lOE1ZDHsDSQ&list=PLHE4J0EAEJOte5hYqBStokKbN1Ssnm5By&index=3

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3300978-julia-long-is-a-legend

**NB Julia Long was one of the lesbians who protested

Over on the Reddit /R/ainbow sub, they're saying the lesbians involved in the protest aren't actually lesbians, because they must be transmen...

Is this because they don't fit some restrictive gender stereotype of well-behaved little cis handmaidens?

Following the Truro, 'Let A Woman Speak' event discussed in the thread, news of website and forthcoming event in Plymouth.

OP PennyLessDaunt wrote:
"Today looks like being a bit busy with announcements of all kinds expected. At 'Let a woman speak' we've decided to sneak in an early one.

The website is now live at www.letawomanspeak.org and the next meeting will be in Plymouth on the 25th August. Tickets are on sale now at Eventbrite www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/let-a-woman-speakabout-womens-rights-tickets-47623163163

It's a great line-up, really interesting speakers (Stephanie Davies-Arai, Miranda Yardley, Nic Williams and Abigail Rowland). We're really grateful to them and the amazing, generous MNetters who are giving their time and support behind the scenes- I really wish I could name names and deeds. But they know who they are and they have our thanks"
thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3295433-Let-a-woman-speak-website-and-event

Also recording of the speakers at the Truro event is here (SwearyG from 1:06):

Place marking here as I want to go back & read some excellent posts from here.

Over on the Reddit /R/ainbow sub, they're saying the lesbians involved in the protest aren't actually lesbians, because they must be transmen...

Folk who say others have no right to tell them what sex they are feel they have every right to tell others what sex AND what sexuality they are.

I love the Swiss cheese model. Thank you Haxxor and all others posting great theory. Good to Datun's name again.

Thanks terf

Its harsh but fair

And this is what we currently have in terms of capable guardianship: the running understanding and expectation that single sex means single sex. This applies to men and to women. If a man wanders towards the ladies lavs we can expect any bloke nearby to say "Oi! Mate! You're going into the wrong lavs!"

And i am probably one of the worst on mumsnet at not keeping to the point of the thread

But whats that got to do with the thread?

Rufus you do make me smile. Alot.

Apologies that I am late to this thread. Quentin is absolutely right to apply this specific theory of crime. Of the three necessary components, only the first one has to be human. Only the motivated offender is human. The designated victim can be person or stack of gold bars, the capable guardian can be cctv cameras or a massive bodyguard.

Rather intolerant of you. I had a couple of my school bullies apologise to me when we were in our thirties.
They were genuine apologies, I accepted them. Nobody is the same person they were at 14. It’s called personal growth.

I can understand a 15 year old growing up and changing her views...what with the whole maturing thing

And i am probably one of the worst on mumsnet at not keeping to the point of the thread

But whats that got to do with the thread?

How did you notice you were at school with her?

I noticed a girl I was in school with on here protesting about girls and womens rights as a lesbian at school this same uber straight girl protested about me and a few lesbians , she didn't want to go in the showers with us and spread hate around the school

Cool story.

its quite funny really , I noticed a girl I was in school with on here protesting about girls and womens rights

as a lesbian at school this same uber straight girl protested about me and a few lesbians , she didn't want to go in the showers with us and spread hate around the school !

C/F rang me some years ago for some free legal advice , told her I hadn't forgotten how she had made my life hell at school

have seen recently another girl who was anti lesbians and gay at school , and have subsequently got grown up gay children and march at Pride events , she still cant look me in the face

how times change

Hi Terfsup . All good. Still reading, if not posting as much.

What Datun said.

waves to Datun Haven't seen you for a while. I hope you have been keeping well.

haXXor

Fascinating posts. The content, but also the way you communicate it. Mesmerising.

"Claims that GRA changes don't remove a cheese layer are disingenuous"

That would be better for me, I sometimes have trouble with the cheese slicing gadget that we have.

Sadly, I don't think that's what you meant.

What's really interesting to me is how we can analyse the GRA situation through at least two different models (criminology, security[1] theory) and come to the same conclusion. It's almost like we might be right...

@FoxOnSecurity and other PPs: I never thanked you for the compliments. So thanks. I try my best to explain things clearly. Writing documentation is easily the hardest part of my day job because humans don't have uniform instruction parsers.

[1] Not just IT security: anyone who uses external door locks is deploying a swiss cheese security model: first slice is that there is social pressure not to burgle, second slice is hiding valuables and closing curtains at night to reduce a thief's perception of your house as a target, third slice is your external security arrangements.)

Brilliant posts nooka, thank you.

Oh and while people are enjoying an introduction to risk management another model of interest might be the fraud triangle. This is a simple behavioural model used to look at workplace fraud, considering why otherwise law/ policy abiding individuals act fraudulently in certain circumstances. It has three components:

Pressure (at it's most basic the individual needs money and feels there is no way to get it, often because it is difficult or embarrassing to admit to the problem)

Opportunity (the individual sees circumstances where they think fraud can be committed without consequence)

Rationalisation (the individual is able to tell themselves that their act is justified often because of perceived failings of the organisation or society they are defrauding)

To me it's fairly easy to see how this model could apply (substituting financial need/pressure for validation), thinking for example of the assault at Speakers Corner, election/selection of individuals for roles or schemes run by the Labour party and the way that these have been justified in some circles.

Keeping up with the IT security theme the GRA doesn't even need to be changed for the threat agent to be successful. The original GRA has acted as a trojan horse, whether it was designed that way or not.

It was a largely unnoticed and apparently innocuous legal change which has enabled the definition of women to become diluted by adding men who have been given permission to have the legal fiction status of women through gender reassignment, but more importantly as this has happened alongside

a broadening of terms so that the tight category of adults with gender dysphoria confirmed and treated by healthcare professionals who had taken steps or were in the planning process to transition medically/surgically having already transitioned socially (a group estimated in the low hundreds) has become a large group (estimated in the hundred thousands) of disparate individuals under the transgender umbrella who may have sex or gender dysphoria, or be driven by fetishes or other motivations to believe, pretend to believe or simply say that they are the opposite sex and be at least on the face of it accepted as such

the relaxation of initially rigid medical gatekeeping alongside the introduction of easier processes to enable changes of sex markers in key identity documents (why bother with a GRC altered birth certificate if you already have a drivers licence and passport in your new sex?)

these alongside the general growth of individualistic identity based thinking so that 'I feel x therefore I am x' is now a widely accepted paradigm, so that when individuals present in one of the new transgender identities official reactions are to celebrate and praise the individual regardless of how bizarre that presentation might be (eg Friday Pippa not being taken aside by HR for disciplinary action but instead being feted and asked to write policies, advise the board etc).