Two boys take 1st and 2nd place in Connecticut girls' 100m sprint

@FermatsTheorem

You're totally correct. And seriously, this is what is coming your way. Here in the US, it seems things exploded overnight, with minimal discussion or attention to what was happening. It's a real mess.

At least you all have the chance to put boundaries in place and create guidance for these issues. I love that you are talking and meeting and requesting debate. That simply didn't happen here.

GeorgeFayne thank you for an American perspective. It's important to remind people that these races aren't just your school sports day where most of the kids don't even want to be competing and would sooner be having a crafty ciggie behind the bike shed anyway. They are major state competitions, with a lot hanging on the results, for teens who are very serious about their athletics.

This thread is repeated over on AIBU now.

Lets keep it on page 1, and spread the word!

From a pissed off American:

1. Sisters/friends: THIS is what happens with self-ID. Feminists warning of harm to females are not fear-mongering. Female erasure is real.

1. The U.S. law in transgender issues is rather murky. There is no real federal statute equivalent to your GRC or self-ID. States can individually set laws regarding birth certificates, bathrooms, etc. (A federal passport can have gender changed with simply a letter from a physician stating diagnosis of gender dysphoria and that the individual is living as the alternative gender.)

There is, however, a federal law passed in 1972 regarding sex discrimination and education. It's called Title IX. It reads, "no person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance." This is now being used as a basis for extending transgender rights in all public schools and universities, including athletics. To my knowledge, the court cases challenging this have thus far supported the inclusion of transgender rights with sex discrimination, though it has not been tested at the level of the Supreme Court.

1. The NCAA is the governing body for competitive collegiate athletics. Fortunately, they still have some regulations in place for sex and participation. Currently, any MTF athlete must have completed one year of testosterone suppression before participation on a women's team. (But can still fully participate and receive scholarships.)

1. State championships are a big effin' deal here, and Connecticut is a highly populated state. (It has over 260 high schools.) This is not some insignificant local event. These races are the basis for scholarships, and as has been pointed out, potentially life changing. Girls are losing opportunities to accommodate the fantasies of two boys, (for whom I am also quite sorry).

@Terfulike

"Frankley it looks like were going to have to set up a whole new international Federation, and new national sporting bodies for biological women"

Is there any reason why sporting women and people with business interests could not do this on the basis that sex is a protected category?

I'd pay money to go and watch all female sporting events.

Lefty dude bro's are amazingly generous when it comes to giving away women's rights.

It's great how they assume they have the power to decide when women and girls have space to themselves. It's almost as if they own everything and sex segregation is a courtesy that they can remove if they see fit.

I say to them: that's unfair, but did you know that trans women are literally killed because people don't like them? Maybe let's let them have this one.

So lets destroy women's sport, because violent men have killed Trans women That's quite a leap.

If Trans people generally want more acceptance, this is hardly the way to do it. What do you imagine the families/friends/coaches etc who have girls involved in competitive sport (as I do) are going to think when they watch that video, and know similar is coming their way soon?

I doubt its going to be "Oh, how brave and inclusive" is it? They know that they are watching males, who couldn't dominate if they had to compete with other males.

The phrase " cheating bastards" springs to mind...

I'm going to send this Connecticut story to my County Councillor for Education, (a Conservative) and ask for reassurances that girls here won't be similarly disadvantaged.

I'm also concerned that I can find nothing re. transgender policy in schools on the CC website. Is that the responsibility of individual schools? Who would administer county level school sport?

Lefty dude bro's are amazingly generous when it comes to giving away women's rights.

"I say to them: that's unfair, but did you know that trans women are literally killed because people don't like them? Maybe let's let them have this one."

Lots of people are killed because someone doesn't like them. The question is whether there's this murder epidemic of people because they are trans as some people claim. And the evidence, assuming we're talking the West which is the relevant region for this debate, is no.

Plus, as others have pointed out, in what way would it justify this regardless?

The really annoying thing though is in parasport, we have a well-developed system of how sensible classification and still give good sport and challenging competition. But suddenly, that is a bad thing when it comes to denying some males the chance to do exactly as they want.

Yes, precisely. Thanks to London 2012 and the long build-up/increased funding, DS2 spent his entire junior athletics career training in a mixed para/standard group. Completely inclusive as a group and a competitive pastime, but a level playing field when it came to actual competition.

'The other girls in this race aren't the ones killing transwomen, it's men doing that. So basically the argument is 'men are horrid to us so we're going to be horrid to girls to make ourselves feel better'. Nice bullying.'

That's a really good point - that is exactly what is being suggested here.

"I say to them: that's unfair, but did you know that trans women are literally killed because people don't like them? Maybe let's let them have this one."

That's so daft, isn't it? I honestly wonder sometimes how people can be that thick. Guess what? Women are also literally killed because people (men) don't like them. What does it have to do with sport? Does it mean women should be allowed to run in the under-11s egg and spoon race? There is no connection between the two things at all. Seriously, how do people grow up to be that stupid? It's mind-boggling.

As regards boxing and handicapping in flat races, seems one motivation is money -- via betting etc. People won't bet or watch for enjoyment something which isn't a fair or interesting competition. This Connecticut case already shows the lack of competition aspect (since I assume there aren't that many transgirls in this age group in one state , so the fact that they both placed........). Except I suspect in this case the monetary aspect will be possible scholarships (so the males win, no change there), and possibly the universities get transwomen rugby players, or boxers, or wrestlers, or whatever other sport, so they're not going to complain either! Which would make the actual advantage of transwomen over females in sport a selling-point for universities. So, even more scholarships, and even less for girls and women. With the ultimate aim of looking like the iran womens football team.................

The really annoying thing though is in parasport, we have a well-developed system of how sensible classification and still give good sport and challenging competition. But suddenly, that is a bad thing when it comes to denying some males the chance to do exactly as they want.

Frankley it looks like were going to have to set up a whole new international Federation, and new national sporting bodies for biological women.

To anyone thinking this is fine.

Would it be fine to have had Wladimir Klitschko compete against Amir Khan?

No? Of course not. Wlad is six foot six, 250lb and has one of the most powerful punches in history. He’s also extremely fast (amazing how fast such a big man can sprint.)

Khan is a light welterweight (135-140lb.) also a world champ.

Both men were world champions in their weight category. Wlad vs Khan would not have been a fair fight.

So if men and women can compete against each other, do we get rid of weight classifications in boxing? Of handicaps in horse racing? Of course we don’t. Because putting Wlad up against Khan would be fucking insanity.

But of course women don’t matter.

Even if the literal killing claim was correct, surely letting transwomen steal prizes from women would make people like them less rather than more... Yes, seems like this is more likely to increase trans hate than anything else. All the parents and other relations of the girls in that race, for a start.

The other girls in this race aren't the ones killing transwomen, it's men doing that. So basically the argument is 'men are horrid to us so we're going to be horrid to girls to make ourselves feel better'. Nice bullying.

Ah, the two wrongs make a right school of 'logic'.

Alex Biancardi:
I say to them: that's unfair, but did you know that trans women are literally killed because people don't like them? Maybe let's let them have this one

Alex you fool...

'I say to them: that's unfair, but did you know that trans women are literally killed because people don't like them? Maybe let's let them have this one'

Even if the literal killing claim was correct, surely letting transwomen steal prizes from women would make people like them less rather than more...

connection? Comments

Some of the connection are mind blowing.

Alex Biancardi:
I say to them: that's unfair, but did you know that trans women are literally killed because people don't like them? Maybe let's let them have this one

How is that logical? Transpeople are killed, therefore female only sports should be stopped?

Janice is a

Janice Turner has tweeted a link to this story and received a lot of responses, of which I reckon about 75-80% agree that it's unfair, with the rest using the usual combination of evidence, reason and logic that we're so familiar with, e.g. "You are a transphobe", "Transwomen are women" "Trans people suffer terrible discrimination so they should be allowed to compete" etc etc (I paraphrase ).

They're not in the women's teams because they've been excluded from the men's.

I agree, they haven't been excluded from the boys race. This is nothing to do with other men's toxic masculinity or fear of gender unconformity. It's everything about what these two competitors want.