In reaction to the Government sex segregation Petition response, M&S are finally reconsidering their position on their sexist unsafe and undignified policy.

I've had 2 replies from M&S now...both useless, just empty assurances without addressing the points I raised.

Yes, waiting to go into a changing room holding a bra with a man standing behind you is a big deal...some men will be fantasising about the woman trying it on and thinking about it while he stands behind her, maybe hoping to be in the changing room next door to her. That's different from buying it and being served by a man although some would feel embarrassed by that.

Seems some people have no idea what sexual thoughts and fetishes men have.

I assumed the poster meant that there was a man queuing up to go into the ladies' changing room to try on clothes.

Well I dread to think how she would cope with being served by a man behind the counter.

Some 82 year olds don't like seeing breastfeeding in public either. You do know there are women that do that in public don't you? In front of men even.

M&S hasn't replied to me yet. Since I take the opposite view that the status quo is fine, I wonder if I will get the same response?

Why don't you decide where other women's boundaries should be supermatchgame? You can mock them if you feel they are being prudish.

I'll get my 82 year old mother out for you. She'd be mortified in that situation. You can have a right old giggle at her.

Here - pop your big woke old bra on these

You know the thing that is really extraordinary is we , women, just don’t get asked!!

Something that affects us and we don’t get asked!! We just get told.

How different could all of this been with open discussion and a willingness to take into account our views on something that deeply affects us in so many aspects of our lives. I’m talking about all aspects of self ID here, changing rooms, women’s spaces, sport etc, etc.

Labour being the worst offender in my book. Sorry gone off at bit of a tangent, but it just beggars belief.

I was in an m and s the other day queuing with bras to try on. Behind me was an old man waiting to try clothes on.

Wait, so you were embarrassed because you were holding a bra and it was in front of an old man? Everyone being fully clothed and in public?

Is that not very immature? Is the 'old' significant here or an incidental detail? Was it Benny Hill?

I get you with negotiating but really here M&S has to balance rights because to invoke the sex exemptions it has to be a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. It’s got to be moderate.

If we suggest a workable balance that keeps them on the right side of the law then there’s a chance they will implement it.

Ignore them. They are lampooning you.

You may be right, I was always told in negotiations to ask for way more than actually wanted as a compromise. But every time we offer to help them claim their own space, to help fundraising for shelters etc, we are simply told to shut up or die in a fire, exclusionary britches blah blah

Ignore them. They are lampooning you.

Easier said than done I know.

Transwomen’s rights have to be in balance and don’t take precedence
Yeah if only.
We have said for time now that a third space/unisex/gender neutral/whatever it's called would be a great compromise that hurts no one. Sadly this is called discrimination, and we are all TERFs for even thinking of it.

Costs are not a defence to an indirect discrimination claim.

Transwomen’s rights have to be in balance and don’t take precedence.

Ours has curtains

Emma Truss says all M&S changing rooms have lockable doors with mirrors inside: is this true? I seldom visit their changing room, not liking their clothing ranges these days, but thought I'd read here about ones with just curtains.

Survey time?

That wouldn't work for at least two reasons Elletorro. Firstly the cost. Secondly TW want full access to women's spaces on a par with women. Nothing less will do. If they had any mind to be half reasonable we wouldn't be where we are now.

I wonder if a concerted letter writing approach would work.

I think that M&S’s policy is indirect sex discrimination and harassment. It can safely using the sex exemptions disallow transwomen from opting in to sex segregated spaces.

it could design the entrance to changing rooms so that transwomen go through the women’s entrance but then have their own changing rooms to one side

My response,

Dear Emma

How about women and girls feeling comfortable and safe?

This looks like a copy and paste response.

As this issue gets bigger and more women understand what is happening M and S stand to lose their customer base.

I would not underestimate what women will do if they feel the safety of their children is in any way compromised. Boycotting your shop is the only response.

You have lost my custom and I will be emailing all my friends with your response and suggesting they do the same.

On 12 Jun 2018, at 08:22, M&S

Good morning
Thank you for taking the time to get in touch. I am sorry you have been left disappointed with our fitting room policy.
With over 30 million customers, we understand our responsibility to the Equalities Act 2010 and it is something we take seriously. We want to create a place where everyone – including customers and colleagues - feels included, and can be themselves.
To do this, we have to create a balance and we do feel our current policy helps us to achieve this.
Our customers are free to choose the Fitting Room they identify with and feel comfortable in, with respect to other customers' privacy.
This is because all of our fitting room cubicles have mirrors inside and lockable doors to ensure full customer privacy.
We are continually reviewing it to ensure it is appropriate for the largest number of customers and your feedback is useful for us to do that.
I’d like to thank you for taking the time to contact us and I do hope you can return to shopping with M&S with confidence in the future.

Kind regards

Emma Truss
Retail Customer Services
Your M&S Customer Service

Registered office: Waterside House, 35 North Wharf Road, London, W2 1NW
Registered Number: 214436 (England and Wales)

We are continually reviewing it to ensure it is appropriate for the largest number of customers and your feedback is useful for us to do that

That letter has a clear hint to get more women to write in complaining

That's really disappointing. Also reminder to me I need to write. I was in
an m and s the other day queuing with bras to try on. Behind me was an old man waiting to try clothes on. Now he could of course been perfectly harmless but I felt really embarrassed and will not be going back there

Response from M and S to email.

Good morning
Thank you for taking the time to get in touch. I am sorry you have been left disappointed with our fitting room policy.
With over 30 million customers, we understand our responsibility to the Equalities Act 2010 and it is something we take seriously. We want to create a place where everyone – including customers and colleagues - feels included, and can be themselves.
To do this, we have to create a balance and we do feel our current policy helps us to achieve this.
Our customers are free to choose the Fitting Room they identify with and feel comfortable in, with respect to other customers' privacy.
This is because all of our fitting room cubicles have mirrors inside and lockable doors to ensure full customer privacy.
We are continually reviewing it to ensure it is appropriate for the largest number of customers and your feedback is useful for us to do that.
I’d like to thank you for taking the time to contact us and I do hope you can return to shopping with M&S with confidence in the future.

Kind regards

Emma Truss
Retail Customer Services
Your M&S Customer Service

Registered office: Waterside House, 35 North Wharf Road, London, W2 1NW
Registered Number: 214436 (England and Wales)

On 11/06/2018
Dear M and S

In regard to your changing room policy . I am extremely concerned that you have changed policy.

Women and girls need to feel and be safe when they are vulnerable, ie undressing to try on clothes, bras etc.

Your policy does not not respect women and also does not respect the sex, based protections in the Equality Act.

I urge you to put the safely and privacy of women first.

I feel ashamed for you.

I had a brush off email that completely ignored my concerns and said they hoped it reassured me.

Floof, I told them I was still not happy and gave various examples of things that could still happen when they allow men into women's changing rooms, even with lockable cubicles. You can say that you won't feel comfortable unless the changing rooms are single sex.