Paris Lees interviewed by Nick Robinson on Radio 4 now on.

Why would this situation be any different to others that happen?

Do you expect the same from me when this male relative laughs at other people?

Am I expected to stop people laughing at those who believe the earth is flat behind their backs?

Ergh laughing at them?? At someone doing their best to live life in a way that's tolerable for them and hurting nobody??

I don't know what you expect me to do? I am not playing sport being nice, then laughing at this person behind their back.

and the old ones will be dead soon

Bearing in mind what happened to Linda Bellos (interviewed by the Police under caution etc), shouldn't we be claiming that this is a veiled threat, that we feel threatened by PL?!

Ergh laughing at them?? At someone doing their best to live life in a way that's tolerable for them and hurting nobody??

PL's description of the torture they went through as a child being told that they were too feminine, that being feminine was the worst thing possible for a boy and that they were never in any way acceptable as the sex they were because of their feminine characteristics, was really heartbreaking. I admire and respect the fact that PL has made a success of their life. I would love to have PL as an ally in gender critical thinking, maybe one day either they or I will change our thinking to the point where this will be possible.

I was struck by NR's hesitation when challenged to describe PL as a woman. He deflected, and spoke of courtesy/consideration. TIM often seem to think that people actually agree they're woman when people are only being polite.

I know two TIM, one is part of my social circle, the other is far closer. Neither pass. No one uses she or her when referring to them in their absence though we're all very polite to their faces. I imagine this is common.

Yes it is common practice, polite to the person, then reveal what is really thought when they aren't around. It's not just behaviour reserved for TIMs, it happens for many reasons.

A family member plays sport with a TIM, who remains on a male team, the men are polite to the TIM, then laugh at them behind their back. That is the reality of human nature and not only about transitioning people, it happens for many reasons.

PL's response to even the most gentle questioning was telling. The interview broke down pretty much. Insisting that NR wasn't allowed to ask any questions revealed the cult like nature of this belief system, and neatly illustrated the way TRAs refuse to explain their claims or enter into debate. Gender critical feminists are perfectly prepared to debate. TRAs don't dare to.

It reminded me of the TV panel discussion when TIM Zoey Tur threatened to send Ben Shapiro home in an ambulance.

I was struck by NR's hesitation when challenged to describe PL as a woman. He deflected, and spoke of courtesy/consideration. TIM often seem to think that people actually agree they're woman when people are only being polite.

I know two TIM, one is part of my social circle, the other is far closer. Neither pass. No one uses she or her when referring to them in their absence though we're all very polite to their faces. I imagine this is common.

I did feel really sad for Paris when speaking about all their toys being literally taken away. That was genuinely heartbreaking and no child deserves to be abused like that. I just don't see what it's got to do with that same boy growing up needing to get their penis into female only spaces.

I thought of Paris the child last night, it's not nice at all for Paris the child to have experienced.

It's sad that Paris is not taking out frustration on Dad or undergoing therapy, that instead views us as the little girl who was gifted their childhood toys. That by taking away things women value, somehow it makes the toy incident better for Paris to live with. What odd things the human mind does in reaction to unresolved trauma.

I did feel really sad for Paris when speaking about all their toys being literally taken away. That was genuinely heartbreaking and no child deserves to be abused like that. I just don't see what it's got to do with that same boy growing up needing to get their penis into female only spaces.

man

Interesting thread. Makes me think about the hear what we want to hear comment someone else made on the thread about the BBC Big Question with Heather and Shon. Looking at Twitter it seems there's a lot of comments from people who think that Lees handled it well and Robinson was out of line... mostly from general listeners as well, not those who appear to be on one side of the debate. I suppose it's the same on both sides. TRAs would probably attack someone no matter how well or badly they handled an interview.

Eventually this will be a paediatric issue

Not on our watch, Paris.

Does anyone know how James Caspian's crowdfunder for the right to research detransitioning is going?

It's not the first time this has happened - for years, every time there was an item about climate change the Beeb felt it had to also put on a climate change denier to "balance" the arguement.

Eventually the weight of evidence was such that this requirement was dropped and the thinking about climate change (ie that it exists) became recognised as mainstream. I hope the reality of biological sex will one day be recognised (or rather, re-recognised) by the media in the same way. And I do notice a change in the tide.

'Oh and I gasped again when PL said in the future 'this will be a paediatric issue''

Same here. Jesus

Nick was totally spot on that Paris seems to be enormously offended by merely being questioned about what Paris was saying. Nick's response to the 'do you think I'm a woman?' question was as polite as it could possibly have been while still being crystal clear that no, he jeffing well does not

..fudd.

I thought it was very telling that they played it at all tbh.

I think there is a definite shift in the air.

I thought the Voice comment was particularly nasty but I am willing to believe PL had no idea of the context

Anyway. Paris Lees is a

Paris Lees why can't they just be who they want without involving the rest of us. We don't want penises in women's rooms.

Has this not been out for ages?

*noeffingidea

young people get it and the old ones will be dead soon
Wrong on both counts. Plenty of young people see right through this, and there's plenty of life left in the 'old ones'.*

Yep. This ain't Logan's Run, Paris et al.

young people get it and the old ones will be dead soon
Wrong on both counts. Plenty of young people see right through this, and there's plenty of life left in the 'old ones'.

Nick Robinson is a nice man and was trying not to be overtly rude. No one wants to trigger narcissistic rage. He navigated it better than anyone has so far. I hope he does more.

Regards the up thread discussions about propaganda techniques, this website might be interesting

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

I agree ☝️