Alert the TRAs! Transphobia against transwomen!

On Grindr gay men have complained that transmen are "ruining" What should be a gay dating site. They are not into men with vulva.
Funnily enough the transmen are not abusing or threatening gay men.

Sorry, my last comment was a response to @Nauticant, who wrote "The game is to make us say TWAW while not believing it. It's taking pleasure in the coercion. It's a power thing."

"Why aren’t these men on the receiving end of the same abuse lesbians face for stating the exact same thing?"

Because the true comparison is between how men are with trans men, not how they are with trans women. I don't see men saying that trans men aren't really men, or that they are in men's spaces just to perv on men. I certainly don't see a campaign to keep trans men out. So far as I can tell, men don't much care.

There's a definite thread of coercing females running through the tranosphere[1]. For example, this TRA fantasises about coercing lesbians into penetrative sex and the coercion is definitely part of the appeal. The lesbian in the pub after WPUK Newcastle who described cotton ceiling as "corrective rape" was bang on the money.

[1] I coined this just now as an analogy with the "manosphere". The goals of both are identical.

Exactly, Luna. Precisely none of these men has been told to DIAF, threatened with being punched, had a gif posted as a response of a man waving a baseball bat wearing a fake-blood splattered t-shirt saying "I KILL TERFS."

This just hasn't happened. The odd "that's transphobic" comment - very infrequent - but no pile-on threatening violence, no suspension of accounts.

Wonder why that is? Why could it be, in 2018, that men's comments on twitter elicit such a different response from women's, both from other twitterers and from the mods? Puzzling.

"Except for the ones that are 'not fine', and frequently kill or beat them. That is what happens to many of the prostituted TIMs, when they try fooling men. This is most of the trans on the trans 'list of remembrance' btw."

True but England is different to many countries and the law expects people to disclose things about their health which their partner might see as important before sleeping with them - HIV status and gender history are two obvious ones.

The real issue here is not whether or not a straight man would have sex with a transwomen, or whether or not they would lie about it.

The real issue is that when lesbians say what these men are saying, that they would not date a transwoman because transwomen are male, lesbians receive harrassment and threats.

Why aren’t these men being called “vagina fetishists”? Why aren’t these men being told to “examine your preference”? Why aren’t these men being called bigots?

Why aren’t these men on the receiving end of the same abuse lesbians face for stating the exact same thing?

Some men lie about sex

Some women lie about sex

I do love the word 'some'

GibbertyFlibbert

"Yes, some men will be attracted to transwomen and be fine when they find out they're not really women."

That's the equivalent to saying that a gay couple are not really married because they can't have children. It's prejudiced and simply wrong. Just as your claim about trans women.

corrected

The fact that some men will fuck any hole going whether it's part of a woman, a man, or a vacuum cleaner, has little to do with men really thinking that transwomen are women.

Its weird, gibberty doesn't think very highly of males or females

"I suspect the figure is higher. I know of many female friends who appear to be heterosexual, married to men and who have had a sexual relationship at some point with a woman."

Don't we all.

Personally I think that many people are attracted to the person, not the sex or gender.

I have no idea what label that pins on them. But it doesn't really matter, because who people choose to have relationships and/or sex with is their own business (providing it's consensual).

Just as an aside, I think a lot of men are in denial about their sexuality. I actually agree with gibberty - that's a first! But I do think that some men will happily have sex with another man if they don't think there will be consequences. Boy George goes into lurid detail in his autobiography about how it was a game for him and his mates to get "straight" men to sleep with them, and that they didn't usually have to try too hard. I've known gay men myself who do similar. Men lie about sex.

"Yes, some men will be attracted to transwomen and be fine when they find out they're not really women."

That's the equivalent to saying that a gay couple are really married because they can't have children. It's prejudiced and simply wrong. Just as your claim about trans women.

Lots of men want to shag transwomen but the men who do shag TW don't actually think they're shagging a woman.

A lot of men, driven by porn, seem to want to penetrate someone else's anus with their penis now, as women don't have a prostate, not every woman will want to accommodate this act.

GibbertyFlibbert most men are very keen to get them into bed.
There certainly is a sizeable number of men who are attracted to TIMs, no one's denying that, and it is possible that some of the men on that thread may have been lying or in denial.
That's not really the issue though. The point is that men are free to state their opinions in a way that women aren't. But then we already know that, but it's nice to have it out in the open, on one twitter thread that everyone can read.

I'm of the belief that more people are bisexual. Not everyone of course, but more than the 0.4% that the ONS quotes.

I suspect the figure is higher. I know of many female friends who appear to be heterosexual, married to men and who have had a sexual relationship at some point with a woman.

I am heterosexual and have had zero interest sexually in women in all my long years, so not everyone is bisexual.

I suspect most of the men chanting on Twitter that Transwomen are women, are bisexual men who struggle to admit it.

gibberty - that is such a sad story. I can see that your friends probably felt validated when men wanted to shag them on a night out, but I bet they were not being taken home to meet the folks were they?

Remember that sex is not always about sexual attraction, it is about power games / toxic masculinity too. (Anyone heard of Snog a Trog nights at Uni? Makes me sick).

This constant insinuation that men must be lying when they say they're not sexually attracted to other men is surely another form of gaslighting?

Yes, some men will be attracted to transwomen and be fine when they find out they're not really women. As a few men find that they are bisexual and indeed attracted to men, too. And other men will be repulsed because they only want to have sex with actual women and feel duped by the transwomen pretending to be women. While another group (as can be seen in that thread) are simply not attracted to that OTT feminine performance some TW seem to think is appropriate.

When a man says I'm straight, thank you very much, I only date real women, why is that not enough? Or a woman says I'm a lesbian, thank you very much, I only date real women, why is that not enough? This is like turning the clock back 50 years and I hate it.

Gibberty, I think the point of the OP, and subsequent posters, and indeed the incredulous posts from women on the tweet thread isn't anything to do with male sexual veracity.

It's simply that men on Twitter are permitted to say freely, without threat of violence, that transwomen aren't women (even if they would enthusiastically have sex with them, as you attest.)

Venice Allen, Miranda Yardley, Jennifer James, Anne Ruzylo, Linda Bellos, Lisa Muggeridge, Olivia Palmer, Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull ....

Its interesting isn't it Yessica just as those with 'far right views' seem to be rarely less targetted, whilst people who are GC and are or have been members of Labour / Green seem to be the focus of smears and sanctions etc?

cf recent article by Lowenna Waters : 'How the far right is attacking the lives of the transgender community - and what we can do to stop it'

www.indy100.com/article/how-the-far-right-is-attacking-the-lives-of-the-transgender-community-and-what-we-can-do-to-stop-it-8369021

(extracts)
"For a long time now, the transgender community have faced an unrelenting barrage of attacks, vilification and unacceptance in the UK.

From the long-lasting legacy of the homophobic Section 28 in 1983 by Margaret Thatcher that made the discussion of LGBT+ issues illegal in UK schools, to the use of derogatory language such as 'tranny' rife in the right wing press, being transgender in the UK has meant constantly fighting against a tide of abuse.... continues

"Another key force fighting the right wing attacks on the transgender community is the tireless work of activists themselves, who fight day in and day out to challenge the status quo.

Activists and transgender people such as Jake Graf, Monroe Bergdorf, Hannah Winterborne, Lily Madigan, and Shon Fey all use their platforms to chip away at the negative propaganda.

Despite being subject to a barrage of abuse on social media platforms like Twitter, and some even reporting the receipt of death threats, their high-profile presence ploughs the furrow for younger gender non-conforming people, and gives them role models."

"Almost all hard partners" (I assume that should be had?)

I'm of the belief that more people are bisexual. Not everyone of course, but more than the 0.4% that the ONS quotes.