Feminism and trans rights, please enlighten me

Then all sex offenders should be in separate prisons.

Well, maybe.

But, within those separate prisons, female bodied people would need to be kept away from male bodied people to prevent the male bodied people from further raping the female bodied people. Wouldn't they?

I wonder what percentage of TIM have a GRC?

cross-posted with you Floeer! Friendly and slice of cake?

And this attempt to paint trans people as rapists is just as ugly

Who is painting transpeople as rapists?

All people are asking is how 6 women were able to be convicted of rape when rape requires a penis.

And this attempt to paint trans people as rapists is just as ugly.

I have not seen that. I have seen people saying it appears 'transwomen' (especially given this term goes for crossdressers and such too) are just as likely as males to commit violence. Thats not the same as saying transpeople are rapists. No more than acknowledging that male people commit near all violence means you are saying every male is violent. NAMALT and NATWALT disclaimer.

S9 of the Gender Recognition Act read, emphasis added

"Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender (so that, if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman).
(2)Subsection (1) does not affect things done, or events occurring, before the certificate is issued; but it does operate for the interpretation of enactments passed, and instruments and other documents made, before the certificate is issued (as well as those passed or made afterwards).
(3)Subsection (1) is subject to provision made by this Act or any other enactment or any subordinate legislation."

And it has to include sex under the European Convention on Human Rights the the case law of the European Court of Human Rights. Those who deny it are denying human rights.

"We know that most women in prison are in prison for non-violent offences, and many of them (a much higher percentage than the female population as a whole) are survivors of sexual violence, domestic violence and child sexual abuse. We need to make sure that male-bodied individuals are not put into prison with this population of immensely vulnerable women."

Then all sex offenders should be in separate prisons.

(FermatsTheorem yes I did, already apologised for my C+P error! Sorry again)

@GibbertyFlibbert but surely a GRC identifies a change of gender, not a change of sex?

(Flooer - are you confusing me with Flibberty? I would never, ever say that we shouldn't be focusing on the sex of the perpetrator).

The whole point, surely, is that it does not matter. What matters is that there were six rape victims and they should be the focus of our attention.

No. Because if they were committed by males - people with XY chromosomes and penises - then there is good reason to keep males - people with XY chromosomes and penises - out of women's/female safe spaces.

If they were committed by females - people with XX chromosomes and vulvas and vaginas - then we need to understand how and why they were involved in a crime that requires a penis.

Sorry! should have bolded GibbertyFlibbert in my PP! (hadn't C+P properly!)

I think you're a bit confused here. Mumsnet is a private company, and it is up to MN's owners to set the rules of discourse on this site. Justine has said that she's in favour of free speech.

No, private companies providing services are subject to the Equality Act. Right now, Mumsnet is a rotten place for those with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment. That has to change.

The whole point, surely, is that it does not matter. What matters is that there were six rape victims and they should be the focus of our attention

No you are wrong. It matters, It matters a lot. To be clear that takes none of our concern away from the victims.

Of course the victims matter. But the sex of the perpetrators matters very, very much.

We know that 98% of imprisoned sex offenders are male - so we need to tackle the problem of male sexual violence, so we need to be able to talk about male-bodied individuals.

We know that most women in prison are in prison for non-violent offences, and many of them (a much higher percentage than the female population as a whole) are survivors of sexual violence, domestic violence and child sexual abuse. We need to make sure that male-bodied individuals are not put into prison with this population of immensely vulnerable women.

My bottom line is that if you have used your penis to rape a woman, you have chosen your gender. You are, and will forever remain male. You made your choice, right there, right then, when you committed an act of sexual violence using your male genitalia.

We shouldn't be focusing on the victims FermatsTheorem as they are not to blame for that crime! We should be focusing on the rapists and why they raped (and how they raped if they are women, considering you require a penis to rape) and how we can eradicate rape culture

We know that racists in the USA point to how many more black people are in jail than white people to paint black people as criminals. It is racism to think like that, talk like that. Disgusting. And this attempt to paint trans people as rapists is just as ugly.

No, it matters when 6 raped women were forced to call their attacker 'she' in court.

The whole point, surely, is that it does not matter.

It does matter, it matters a lot.

Hmmmmm.

Cornish, are you seriously saying that TIM is offensive, while casually using TERF as the opposite of trans?

More hmmmmm.

"Take for example the 6 women convicted of rape last year in the UK. Gender critical feminists want an answer to the question "how many of these rapists were in possession of a penis, and how many were be-vulvaed individuals convicted under common purpose?" The transactivist side want to prevent the question even being asked by neutering language to the extent where it's not even possible to formulate the question."

The whole point, surely, is that it does not matter. What matters is that there were six rape victims and they should be the focus of our attention.

FermatsTheorem That is a great way to explain what is going on with language here. (Isn't the attempt at neutral to call that town "Derry Londonderry" ? So maybe we should be saying TIM Woman ?)

" Mumsnet is a service open to the public"

I think you're a bit confused here. Mumsnet is a private company, and it is up to MN's owners to set the rules of discourse on this site. Justine has said that she's in favour of free speech.