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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Feminism and trans rights, please enlighten me

293 replies

CornishPasty82 · 05/06/2018 07:38

Hey, Been meaning to post here for a while. I’ce been reading a few of the threads on here lately and I’m wondering - Is it possible to be a feminist and support transgender rights? I would like to think it is but reading on here it seems many people think it isn’t?

I do understand some of the issues with “self ID” (ie people with penises in women’s prisons, shelters, etc), but then again - How many women in prisons have been sexually assaulted by trans men? Is this actually a real problem? (Not goading! Genuinely interested in the facts/people’s viewpoints).

I have lots of fabulous friends and a husband (all feminists😀) who raise their eyebrows and think I’m a transphobe for talking about some of the issues with “self ID” so I’m keen to inform myself more.

I’m interested to here from people with all different view points, and I’m especially interested to see actual data/facts on cases where self ID has resulted in violence against women (or not).

Hope it’s okay to post this, and thanks in advance🙂

OP posts:
JuzzaL · 05/06/2018 20:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pratchet · 05/06/2018 20:18

How? Stereotyped where?

GibbertyFlibbert · 05/06/2018 20:15

What stereotyping? Where

Trans women are being stereotyped

Pratchet · 05/06/2018 20:14

What stereotyping? Where

AngryAttackKittens · 05/06/2018 20:14

Silly wimmins acting like penises can be used to hurt us! Our silly little woman feelings are unimportant, unlike the feelings of those with penises which should be centered at all times.

JuzzaL · 05/06/2018 20:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GibbertyFlibbert · 05/06/2018 20:06

How the world turns. 30 years ago feminists fought against stereotyping as a terrible misogynist behaviour. Roll to today and feminists are now the ones doing the stereotyping. How sad. What a betrayal of feminism.

Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 20:03

Absolutely.

Pratchet · 05/06/2018 20:03

I think we have a fake ingenue here: the exclamation marks were a bit of a clue!!!

Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 20:02

All people are innocent until proven guilty except trans people who are likely to be sex offenders.

Are men likely to be sex offenders then? That's what you're implying. Why wouldn't trans identified males offend at the male rate? Do you have some positive evidence that they don't?

Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 20:00

Why wouldn't they?

The OP has consistently failed to give any explanation, convincing or otherwise, of why they clearly don't believe it to be the case (a faith based position it seems) after being challenged on this by several posters. Because they just want to repeat their circular nonsense over and over again. Waste of your time.

SupermatchGame · 05/06/2018 19:59

Not an accessory Chicken - she committed the offence herself.

And women can do far more damage to another woman with a knife without having a penis.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7062529.stm

SupermatchGame · 05/06/2018 19:54

Until there is proof that transwomen are a similar risk to women as men are

Rules of Transphobia No.4: All people are innocent until proven guilty except trans people who are likely to be sex offenders.

ChickenMe · 05/06/2018 19:54

Oh come on SMG

The odd story of a female being an accessory to a rape or "knives are dangerous too" (NOT ALL KNIVES STABGrin)is not going to wash with women.

JuzzaL · 05/06/2018 19:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SupermatchGame · 05/06/2018 19:44

It's very simple: we know and can easily prove if necessary that people with penises have a propensity to use them to rape us. For this reason we want to keep spaces where we are vulnerable free from all people with penises, regardless of their other attributes (with the exception of infancy). It's not a trans issue.

This woman managed to 'assault by penetration' another woman with a 'penis' without having an actual penis:
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/29/gayle-newland-found-guilty-at-retrial-of-tricking-female-friend-into-sex

You know the damage that knives and other items can do to people? The penis isn't the most deadly weapon in the world right?

Opheliah · 05/06/2018 18:08

*are not committing sexual violence at the same rates as men.

Opheliah · 05/06/2018 18:07

I have yet to see the results of a large scale study demonstrating that transwomen commit (sexual) violence to the same extent as men

I have yet to see any study that proves they are not.
We do have many studies however that show AGP (aka male-to-female trans) is the most common paraphilia in sex offenders.

sleepingdragons · 05/06/2018 17:47

Sorry, that shoudl say:

Until there is proof that transwomen are NOT a similar risk to women as men are

sleepingdragons · 05/06/2018 17:46

as a research scientist

If you're a research scientist, then you surely know that absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Things we do know.

  1. men (as a group) are a threat to women
  2. single sex spaces provide some protection for women
  3. 52 out of 125 trans prisoners in the UK are MTF transwomen who are either sex offenders or in the most dangerous category of prisoner. This suggests male pattern violence, it's nothing like female pattern violence.

Until there is proof that transwomen are a similar risk to women as men are (not a special, dangerous case, just having male pattern violence) then why would you put the safety of women and children at risk?

Embracethechaos · 05/06/2018 16:13

This thread really shows how, as a scientific person I struggle to get my head around transgender rights.... It's all emotions and anacdotal evidence, can't have a rational discussion... It was in the new2a while back (dont quote me as I can't remember much) A researcher was barred from doing psychology research on the mental health of transsexuals who were years later regretted their choice as it was not policicaly correct. There is also an issue of free speach at univisities at the moment, with students not hearing controversial opinions.... I do think toilet policies should be research based esspesally as many attacks happen in public toilets (male and female). I know my school girl toilets were places for bullying...

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 05/06/2018 16:05

I think the misunderstanding here is that our position has anything at all to do with transition, gender identity etc. It really doesn't. It's very simple: we know and can easily prove if necessary that people with penises have a propensity to use them to rape us. For this reason we want to keep spaces where we are vulnerable free from all people with penises, regardless of their other attributes (with the exception of infancy). It's not a trans issue.

Floeer · 05/06/2018 15:07

But you are someone of research expertise so you should know and be able to conduct decent and reliable research. Plenty of postgraduates succeed! Perhaps you could even do a PhD in it if you are wanting to really open up this debate? Would certainly be seen as a fresh piece of research to the, currently, limited field.

Or, just do the research for your own satisfaction. If you are someone who works in a research industry you should be more than equipped to satisfy your own need for strong stats and data. You don't have to get as far as publishing but just follow good research practices like you do for your job.

CornishPasty82 · 05/06/2018 15:02

Yes Floeer, and hardly any of those get published in respectable journals because of the reasons I mentioned above (lack of expertise and lack of resources).

OP posts:
Floeer · 05/06/2018 14:43

OP that is why I stated "you could always fund" - nothing about getting someone else to do your own research. Plenty of under-graduates undertaking their own research with next to no funding.

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