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Original poster

Feminism and trans rights, please enlighten me

293 replies

CornishPasty82 · 05/06/2018 07:38

Hey, Been meaning to post here for a while. I’ce been reading a few of the threads on here lately and I’m wondering - Is it possible to be a feminist and support transgender rights? I would like to think it is but reading on here it seems many people think it isn’t?

I do understand some of the issues with “self ID” (ie people with penises in women’s prisons, shelters, etc), but then again - How many women in prisons have been sexually assaulted by trans men? Is this actually a real problem? (Not goading! Genuinely interested in the facts/people’s viewpoints).

I have lots of fabulous friends and a husband (all feminists😀) who raise their eyebrows and think I’m a transphobe for talking about some of the issues with “self ID” so I’m keen to inform myself more.

I’m interested to here from people with all different view points, and I’m especially interested to see actual data/facts on cases where self ID has resulted in violence against women (or not).

Hope it’s okay to post this, and thanks in advance🙂

OP posts:
MIdgebabe · 05/06/2018 21:40

Why should a transwoman be treated more favourably than others of her sex?

JuzzaL · 05/06/2018 21:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pratchet · 05/06/2018 21:19

The law says they have a right to be treated as women. Not that they are.

Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 21:19

Depends whether the specific adult human male has a bit of paper from the Ministry of Truth, SMG. I think you'll find the vast majority don't and are considered "transsexual males".

Pratchet · 05/06/2018 21:18

Er not nuance: we have a meaning, you don't. It's not even a completely different meaning. You just don't have one.

SupermatchGame · 05/06/2018 21:17

Trans identified males are adult human males. Men.

Is that what the law says Eresh?

Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 21:16

Silly wimmins acting like penises can be used to hurt us! Our silly little woman feelings are unimportant, unlike the feelings of those with penises which should be centered at all times.

Some people are even afraid of escalators.

SupermatchGame · 05/06/2018 21:16

This conversation maybe. There's a bigger conversation going on out there. Most people seem to be able to cope with context, nuance and some ambiguity.

Baroquehavoc · 05/06/2018 21:16

Is there a legal definition of 'transwomen'? Is it a male with a GRC or a male who has 'medically transitioned'? (and is there a legal definition of that). Is it assumed that they have both 'medically transitioned' and hold a GRC or is it any man who declares themselves to be one?

Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 21:15

don't think it's particularly helpful to keep going round in circles like this.

Then don't. Trans identified males are adult human males. Men.

Pratchet · 05/06/2018 21:07

Not helpful to you, because you like to use words differently to everyone else on the conversation, and fudge your meaning thereby, so it's terribly unhelpful when this is pointed out.

If you are going to use the words women and men in a conversation, you need to be able to say what they mean.

SupermatchGame · 05/06/2018 21:04

Because a transwoman is not a woman.

A trans woman is a woman.

I don't think it's particularly helpful to keep going round in circles like this.

Pratchet · 05/06/2018 20:55

Like 'most abuse is committed by men'. You don't know what that means. Whereas we all know that this includes trans'women'

OldCrone · 05/06/2018 20:54

I'm querying why a trans woman (medically transitioned etc) should be treated differently from any other woman that has committed a violent crime?

Because a transwoman is not a woman.

Pratchet · 05/06/2018 20:51

Och no one can make you. It seems pointless to use the words when you have no idea what they mean, though.

SupermatchGame · 05/06/2018 20:47

Request respectfully denied.

SupermatchGame · 05/06/2018 20:46

there seems to be a line of thought that because some women are violent abusers then we should ignore that facts that most violent abuse is committed by men? I am suffering logic breakdown there.

Most abuse is committed by men yes.

I'm querying why a trans woman (medically transitioned etc) should be treated differently from any other woman that has committed a violent crime?

Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 20:45

I am suffering logic breakdown there.

I don't think you're the only one.

Pratchet · 05/06/2018 20:40

It's not an insult: it's a request based on an observation that you do not understand the words 'man' and 'woman'. Or, apparently, 'insult'.

SupermatchGame · 05/06/2018 20:37

Please don't use words you don't understand

No need to degenerate into personal insults Pratchet.

MIdgebabe · 05/06/2018 20:31

I am getting confused here -there seems to be a line of thought that because some women are violent abusers then we should ignore that facts that most violent abuse is committed by men? I am suffering logic breakdown there.

Pratchet · 05/06/2018 20:31

I'm highlighting the fact that there are violent crimes committed against women by other women

Please don't use words you don't understand

UpstartCrow · 05/06/2018 20:30

CornishPasty82 Tue 05-Jun-18 14:40:07
Upstart my previous question only applies in countries where self Id is already in force. In the UK we would be able to collect this data.

No, you are mistaken. 6 women were convicted of rape last year. Are they women who assisted a man commit a rape, or TIMS who committed rape using their penis?

Why are sex offenders permitted to change their sex and therefore eradicate their past history of offences?

SupermatchGame · 05/06/2018 20:26

I hope you're not diminishing the psychological impact rape can have on someone?

I'm not. I'm highlighting the fact that there are violent crimes committed against women by other women, eg stabbing to death, and these women are also in prisons.

Pratchet · 05/06/2018 20:21

Oh that? That's not stereotyping. That's not what stereotyping is.

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