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Original poster

Feminism and trans rights, please enlighten me

293 replies

CornishPasty82 · 05/06/2018 07:38

Hey, Been meaning to post here for a while. I’ce been reading a few of the threads on here lately and I’m wondering - Is it possible to be a feminist and support transgender rights? I would like to think it is but reading on here it seems many people think it isn’t?

I do understand some of the issues with “self ID” (ie people with penises in women’s prisons, shelters, etc), but then again - How many women in prisons have been sexually assaulted by trans men? Is this actually a real problem? (Not goading! Genuinely interested in the facts/people’s viewpoints).

I have lots of fabulous friends and a husband (all feminists😀) who raise their eyebrows and think I’m a transphobe for talking about some of the issues with “self ID” so I’m keen to inform myself more.

I’m interested to here from people with all different view points, and I’m especially interested to see actual data/facts on cases where self ID has resulted in violence against women (or not).

Hope it’s okay to post this, and thanks in advance🙂

OP posts:
ibaker23 · 05/06/2018 09:03

Curious
Yea I hijacked this thread by saying I think no one should be in prison........................................................

ibaker23 · 05/06/2018 09:02

Tallu
If you read what I said to OldC then you'll understand how I have a hard time believing you had a hard time answering my questions................................

CuriousaboutSamphire · 05/06/2018 09:00

Oh! One of those!

Cornish Your thread seems to have been hijacked. You may not now get the kind of discussion you want / need. Taking you on good faith, could you skip over the obvious weirdnesses?

To answer you: that is because transwoman, who are men, are as violent as any other man and commit violent crimes as often as, and in much the same was as,, any other group of men. So yes, they are more violent than women, offenders or not. So yes they do add to the incidence of violence in a womens prison, sexual or other wise.

All statistical and hypothetical, but why would women happily agree to put themselves and/or other women at greater risk in any situation ?

Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 09:00

I'd rather JAQ than Fleetwood Mac.

Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 08:59

I'm loving ibaker's Socratic approach to sealioning

Grin
Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 08:59

OP. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. There is no reason for trans identified males to be considered safer to be housed with women than any other male. And it's also about the privacy and dignity of female prisoners, or hadn't you considered them?

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 05/06/2018 08:59

I'm loving ibaker's Socratic approach to sealioning

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 05/06/2018 08:57

Are women in prisons more likely (adjusted for numbers of course) to be sexually assaulted by a trans woman than by another female inmate?

Basic risk assessment tells us that male-bodied people, especially those with a history of sexual offending against women and girls (e.g., Paris Green, Jessica Hambrook, Marie Dean) pose a greater risk to women than randomly-selected women prisoners with e.g. convictions for possession of drugs, yes. There is no need to conduct an experiment on the number of women they will succeed in raping, assaulting or harassing if allowed access to them.

Jeanhatchet · 05/06/2018 08:55

Argh - sorry re last comment - I don't know how to quote on this platform!

ibaker23 · 05/06/2018 08:55

Eresh
I want every person in prison in every country to be released right now. How is that not good faith?

Jeanhatchet · 05/06/2018 08:55

I've seen no information that proves TIM pose no risk to women, or even that the level of offending is less than other males.

Are you asking for actual research to prove hyperbolic claims? Crikey. Listen to the tumbleweed roll past....

Simply saying trans women pose no risk is insufficient to make it so.

ibaker23 · 05/06/2018 08:54

Baro
And you're not up to it. Got it.

OldC
"Why are women being convicted?" A: "Because 50 other people say they must be punished". How is that not clear?

Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 08:52

This person clearly isn't asking questions in good faith. They are derailing multiple threads.

OldCrone · 05/06/2018 08:51

ibaker23
You don't understand

That's because you keep asking questions with no context. If you want people to answer your questions you need to make yourself more clear.

Baroquehavoc · 05/06/2018 08:51

Because this thread wouldn't exist if 300.000 women were released from UK prisons

That would be a challenge.

ibaker23 · 05/06/2018 08:47

Baroque
Because this thread wouldn't exist if 300.000 women were released from UK prisons

ibaker23 · 05/06/2018 08:46

Floeer
You don't understand.

Baroquehavoc · 05/06/2018 08:45

Why don't you start a new thread, ibaker?

ibaker23 · 05/06/2018 08:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Baroquehavoc · 05/06/2018 08:44

I've seen no information that proves TIM pose no risk to women, or even that the level of offending is less than other males.

Baroquehavoc · 05/06/2018 08:42

It's obvious to everyone why women and girls need sex segregation. The fact that there are people whose gender is important to them doesn't alter the fact the women and girls needs and want sex segregation.

Original poster
CornishPasty82 · 05/06/2018 08:41

Thanks for all your replies, will reply in a bit.

Just wanted to say to Cwentryth, I’m not sure why you think I’m “demanding” anything, it was just a polite question.

“Real problem” does sound unpleasant! Let me clarify: Are women in prisons more likely (adjusted for numbers of course) to be sexually assaulted by a trans woman than by another female inmate? Of course sexual violence is horrific in any form, but if a trans woman poses no more of a risk than any another female inmate, then this argues against the argument than trans women should not attend female prisons.

OP posts:
Floeer · 05/06/2018 08:41

Here you go ibaker23

www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/intermediate2/modern_studies/crime_and_law_in_society/causes_types_crime/revision/1/

or better yet take a degree in Criminology if you want that question answered.

Floeer · 05/06/2018 08:39

Still waiting to know what is a woman

From my understanding of TA arguments a woman is a transwoman whereas a biological female is a ciswoman.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 05/06/2018 08:39

I give in, why are they?

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