Twitter thread: no impact assessments carried out for school guidance in Scotland

The one thing I think we might have in our favour when it comes to schools is the number of gender critical parents compared to the number of trans activist parents.

I mean, I’m sure there are a few but the trans activist demographic veers more towards the blue haired student rather than the middle aged PTA member, hence why mumsnet is the gender critical stronghold that it is.

I think this particular battle may come down to individual parents challenging their child’s schools on how they protect the privacy, dignity and safety of their daughters.

A guide for how they might do that would be helpful...

Yes that's exactly the tactic.

Speaking as someone who used to run a school, I can tell you that it's staggering how many headteachers - especially primary heads - think that 'guidance' means 'this is the law and you must do it'.

Make no mistake, however - the TRA lobby is conducting a very clever campaign indeed. They are whittling away, removing 'barriers' so that they can say 'well, it's all happening everywhere now, so why not just put self-id in the law? '

We should be afraid. It's not academic. It's hostile, aggressive men demanding everything that is ours. Governments are caving because they sulk and tantrum.

A man stands in front of a government policy creator and says: 'my brain is the opposite sex: give me women's rights'. And the policy maker says - 'yes, here they are'.

Anyone who supports this has lost their moral compass.

In addition, the governments LGBT Head of Equalities has said, in relation to the Equality Act exemptions: 'the bar will be high and it will not be carte blanche to be trans exclusionary'

the bar will be high. - direct quote from government

What is happening is that some feminists are trying to redefine female

You think it’s feminists trying to redefine female???

From the thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3269463-Government-response-to-the-petition

what BarrackerBarmer said:

"The rights of the entire female population of the UK - 33 million - to be

1. recognised in law as biologically female
2. acknowledged as fundamentally, permanently and irrevocably different from males
3. afforded the right to spaces in the absence of all males
4. acknowledged as the biological group for which all such rights were designated

those rights - the entirety of ALL rights for ALL females- now reside in a tiny little exemption clause buried within a piece of legislation called the Equality Act 2010 which must be
a. invoked on a case by case basis (and yet currently is not)
b. justified to men in each of those cases.

That clause, that little exemption that says FEMALES have rights that apply to us and to us alone, is the ONLY part of the law where our actual rights remain."

What is happening is that some feminists are trying to redefine female

Ye gods - those feminists! With their scientific and .... um... factual and .... err correct definition of female!

What are they thinking? Using an accepted and evidence based term correctly? How dare they?

UptheDuffy An equality impact assessment (if one were done) would likely raise issues under the categories or sex and religion and belief

Exactly I undertake and approve equality impact assessments in my job and these are exactly the areas that I have concerns about. I have asked my LA for the impact assessment but have had no response. If they say they haven't done one I will raise these concerns

feminists are trying to redefine female

Lol indeed. Feminists are quite happy with the dictionary definition of female. It’s not us who want to change it!

What is happening is that some feminists are trying to redefine female.

Lol that's definitely one for the "most outrageous reversal" prize. Female never has included male. HTH.

Despite the bit of paper from the Ministry of Truth.

And your point is? I am against discrimination and stereotyping. Two cornerstones of feminism so far as I am concerned

Protection hasn't been removed from female.

What is happening is that some feminists are trying to redefine female. They are then complaining that the protections in place don't align with their new definition and that therefore the protections aren't in place.

GibbertyFlibbert's recent opinions:
-'There is much to dislike about Vancouver Rape Relief. In fact, I think it is an organisation with odious views' re Morgane Oger

& discussion of a woman's request for a female nurse to do an intimate gyny examination Green Party thread

"If a white patient insisted she wouldn't be treated by a black nurse the patient would be being racist and the hospital would be in their rights not to treat her. Exactly the same if a patient objects to a trans nurse"

cf inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-woman-transgender-nurse-smear-test/

I was at our new purpose built cycle park in Scotland last night. Arrived at the changing room and went to get changed from work to cycle gear. Was baffled to see unisex changing room/ shower rooms but the guy in charge showed me where stickers had been put over one half of the unisex symbol on the 2 rooms as no-one wanted to get naked in front of the opposite sex and everyone thought unisex changing rooms (you don't wear knickers under cycle shorts) were mad.

"Surely gender and gender id are both protected characteristics so it would need to be done" missed a bit, it would need to be done to consider impact on trans kids who are doubly protected. As opposed to femsle, where protection has been removed.

"GibbertyFlibbertThis is incorrect. The Scottish Government has stated unequivocally that it is the duty of LEAs to carry out EIAs and that that is the reason they have not carried out their own."

Surely gender and gender id are both protected characteristics so it would need to be done. I think nothing has been done here as sex is no longer a protected characteristic, so no requirement.

Or maybe no one has bothered to think about it, is that likely? I mean the thought of equality assessment hasn't crossed their minds.

Also swim England and other orgs have said anyone is whatever they say they are, so maybe that is the route they are taking to mean no need for assessments or any safeguarding considerations.

An equality impact assessment (if one were done) would likely raise issues under the categories or sex and religion and belief.

Y we are already getting the blame. Never mind. We must fight on.

may take five or ten years, but it will happen and the backlash will do more harm to transgender people (as observed in those aforementioned US states where suspicion of trans people is now running rampant and leading to an increase in incidents).

Oh no doubt that's all our fault.

You don't get acceptance by coercing people and dissent doesn't go away if you forbid its expression.

^This.

GibbertyFlibbert This is incorrect. The Scottish Government has stated unequivocally that it is the duty of LEAs to carry out EIAs and that that is the reason they have not carried out their own.

And just think about it - if an LEA that had decided to only have unisex facilities in new built schools decided to change them to strictly single-sex ones you would expect them to carry out an EIA in regards to transgender pupils which would have to provide for a solution for those pupils. If they did what you're saying here, they could just shrug any concerns off and throw transkids under the bus.

This is what legislation in some US states has led to - they changed the rules in school which then excluded previously included transkids from the opposite sex facilities. If the current trend of pushing these things through without consulting the public continues in the same vein of throwing women and girls under the bus I am confident in predicting the same thing will happen here.

Why am I confident? Because I've just seen another poll asking if people in England support self-ID and the majority does not (there's not even a majority amongst LGBT people). And yes, it's a professional poll from a professional pollster asking over a 1000 people - the gold standard for such polls. It closely mirrors the one done in Scotland a few years ago which showed the same result.

It may take five or ten years, but it will happen and the backlash will do more harm to transgender people (as observed in those aforementioned US states where suspicion of trans people is now running rampant and leading to an increase in incidents).

You don't get acceptance by coercing people and dissent doesn't go away if you forbid its expression. You need to persuade people. You do that by taking people's fears and concerns on board, by listening to what they want and then finding a solution that takes all of those things into account.

Makes recent trends easier though we've seen men heading up quite a few orgs that were started by and have been run by and for women.

Cos penis = better obv.

Well gender representation clearly is not related to under-representation of women. If you're worried about that then you talk about sex discrimination.

There are scores of genders aren't there, you could have 20 different genders on a board, and they've all got dicks.

Hoorah.

For those who enjoy Lisa Muggeridge, here are her posts on Kids Company:

idgeofreason.wordpress.com/2015/10/16/why-patrick-butler-didnt-see-a-problem-with-kids-company-and-why-it-matters/

idgeofreason.wordpress.com/2015/08/31/mumsnet-kids-company-and-online-politics/

So many similarities - blind liberal support for bad organisations using harmful practice, completely ignorant of safeguarding.