Study find trans kids thrive after early transition

That is not the case at all. The margin of error is clearly unacceptable. Especially given the massive increase in referrals. I am completely with you all when it comes to diagnosis. We need to be better and more careful.

Ultimately though.. if you are planning on hormones and other interventions then sterility is ultimately a consequence. Maturity and forward planning can minimise this.

I also clearly don’t know nearly enough about blockers or the effects so this is something I need to review.

for these 203 women, transition deepened their dysphoria whereas coming to terms with their sex helped.

Prawn is it not possible that those that detransitioned either had gender identities that were fairly in the middle of the spectrum? Their transition and subsequent detransition were part of a process they needed to go though to come to terms with themselves? Or they transitioned possibly for the wrong reasons?

If transition make someone worse, not better, then I think that is a sure sign that it isn't right for them.

Beyond my knowledge but I think if we could know with far more certainty.. This is far preferable to blockers/hormones for those that would have otherwise not turned out to be trans.

I think you are massively downplaying this. If children have their lives ruined by blockers and hormones and sterility when they don't have gender dysphoria and would have desisted it's tragic. The bar needs to be much higher than "wouldn't it be great if we could know better who is trans but we can't at the moment so that's too bad".

Hey, I am going to try and summarise everything that people have asked of me and cover off a few other points I picked up whilst reading back.

If I miss you out please let me know an I will be happy to answer specifically. Will try to be concise...

CharlieParley - I agree that those that DO desist need to be allowed to desist. Without screwing up their endocrine system. They are after all not trans. Possibly non conforming and that is fine too, but I do think that the key in this regard is that medical professionals need better ways of separating out those that will persist in to adolescence. How we do this? Beyond my knowledge but I think if we could know with far more certainty.. This is far preferable to blockers/hormones for those that would have otherwise not turned out to be trans.

Keeptrudging - I started researching this stuff in the middle of my teens. I would say that by 17 I had the knowledge I needed. The reason I held back was not because I was unsure of myself but I still reliant upon my parents. And given that they disowned me at 27 when I came out, I was right to do so. Once I was out from under their roof, and more independent the only thing that stopped me was a string of serious relationships, two of which I was still hiding who I was out of a combination of shame and also commitment to my partners and a third who supported me the best way she could but ultimately the relationship ended because I needed to transition.

Even by 16 I knew what I wanted.. desperately. But fear/shame/relationships/hoping it was a phase is what stopped me. Which is a common theme among trans people.

Also, with regards to your statement about taxes - I pay taxes too. And over the years, Shouldn't I get to benefit from what I have paid in to the NHS? I would say that I paid for the treatment of a lot of other people's needs and I do not begrudge this. But the whole point of the NHS is that it is there when it is needed. If society expects me to be a fully developed male first to be certain I won't change my mind about something I have known for 25 of my nearly 29 years on this planet then society should not begrudge me reversing as much of it as possible. Again - a system I have paid in to.

spontaneousgiventime - Perhaps I am biased. But I am coming at this from being in the same situation that many young trans people are in. One of feeling hopeless whilst my body continued to change. I may have been old enough to make the decision to start at 27 in many people's eyes but the knowledge I gained 13+ years prior was still valid. If there were more options available to me (or I knew they existed) I would not have had to research DIY in the first place.

OldCrone - This boils down to the fact that to the trans person their body is not complete. It disgusts them. The level and specific areas in this change but the end result is the same. How can you lead a happy and fulfilled life when every time you look in a mirror you want to be physically sick or you can feel your skin crawling. Yes transition is extreme. Therapy can help to an extent. I will probably get shot for this.. but it is like expecting a gay person to accept that they are gay but that they need to lead a heterosexual life. That is what I liken it to. Trying to remove a persons 'need' to transition through therapy is no different to conversion therapy.

I will say though, since my stance is that 16 is an age where medical transition should be an option that prior to this, therapy can help with adolescents figuring themselves out and also as a way to teach patience. Something that through lack of support, breeds the desperation that leads them to recklessly buy medication online without understanding the ramifications. One look at places like reddit shows threads asking if blood work is even necessary when they could buy their next x number of months worth of estrogen/anti androgen/testosterone. It is painful to read. Also I use the word naive because many, whilst coming from a place of empathy, do not have an understanding of what it is truly like. I am happy to withdraw the word if another would have been more appropriate or it caused offence then I am sorry.

With regards to the dangers of buying medication online, it can be if you don't do the research. But honestly.. finding a reputable online pharmacy is not difficult, it is not like I was buying brandless pills off a craiglist chemist who claims to synthesise the estrogen/anti-androgens himself. I was getting the real thing, the market for counterfeited Estradot patches and Androcur Cyproterone is just not profitable when having to stay up to date with packaging, batch numbers and presentation. But also, I was getting regular blood work done. I knew the warning signs and what to look out for and I was (and am, though now on NHS prescription - omg the money I am saving..) seeing doctors regularly. I was upfront with the GIC when I returned for my second consultation (typically where they will offer hormones) and I told them what I was taking, what dosages, frequency, blood work levels etc. I am being continued on the dosages I was already taking.

But I do acknowledge that too many young people rush in to this and regret it later. Reducing stigma and waiting times to see a GIC specialist (adult and adolescent) and also access to intermediate support would go along way to reduce the number of people having to go DIY like I did.

Prawnofthepatriarchy - I think a lot of people confuse this.. It is less about wanting to look convincing and more about wanting a body that did not go through puberty and thus cause them increased dysphoria. I get told all the time I am pretty by friends, colleagues, random people that I end up in conversation with. I am sceptical of their sincerity, but nonetheless I think I have been incredibly lucky with what I have achieved considering the age I was when I started. But truly I do not think it is about passing or looking pretty or handsome for most, it is about development that was avoidable. But yes perhaps you are right about looking back retrospectively though I would never suggest someone DIYs. It has to be something that they choose themselves and I will dissuade whenever I can because I do not think most that consider it are as informed as I was.

That was less concise than I had hoped for.. Sorry :(

Vaccinations do not have significant risks.

Very rarely, something goes wrong. That happens to a tiny minority of people.

Vaccinations are extremely safe, generally speaking

Supermatch
The first article you linked to is from 1973 and refers to gay conversion therapy in someone who did not want to be gay.

The second one is more recent, but the bit you quote has no references to back it up.

Psychotherapy with the objective of “curing” transsexualism, in order to get the patient to accept oneself as a man or a woman, is useless with the currently available methods. The transsexual mind cannot be changed into a false gender orientation. Every attempt there that has been to do so has failed.

If that is true, why not cite some of the studies that showed it?

They may talk about it being high priority, however when a complicated situation arises, and they all are, they act first and think later, if ever.

There is zero understanding of the complexities. School leaderships are dominated by white middle class males whose default view is, middle class male innocent, child the problem.

White middle class male (dressed however he wants) enters school advising that males take priority over females, white males are not going to think, oh heck I maybe should reflect on what I encounter online whilst indulging my porn habits at this point in time and consider the children. Hell no.

I disagree entirely that child protection is a low priority to schools, local authorities and social services. I do however think there is a lack of clarity in schools and local authorities around what is the best way to support young people who believe they are trans. This reflects similar confusion in the wider community.

I think, I hope JR become the norm, that will soon make the Government sit up and take notice.

Agree. I think we need to get a strategic safeguarding judicial review for a blatant breach.

That Stella Creasy response pretty much summed up the current political mindset to me.

Just disgraceful. The "wait til there is a crisis" approach to child protection grieves me, having been through one with my own child. Which the response to was largely clueless and arse covering.

The problem is child protection is a low, low, low priority to governments, LAs, schools, and Social Services. It is completely fragmented and there is no cohesion, only buck passing.

I recommended using the Judicial Review process.

I did this when a school repeatedly lied to me about their actions, once they had to get a barrister to respond to a Judicial Review they admitted that child protection was "not set in stone". In fact they ignored it because they did know any of it and had not read any of their obligations.

Supermatch did you not see the previous comments and link to the detransitioners survey? There appear to be quite a range of ways to deal with dysphoria other than transition. Indeed, for these 203 women, transition deepened their dysphoria whereas coming to terms with their sex helped.

guideonragingstars.tumblr.com/post/149877706175/female-detransition-and-reidentification-survey

Stupid meaningless platitudes.

Ereshkigal

It was an appalling response from Stella

Kyanite stella creasy reply

I'd be concerned for any child who thought it was appropriate to masturbate in view of someone else without their consent, and the impact that could have on the person viewing. Peer on peer sexual assault v serious and underreported in schools. need to change that.

mobile.twitter.com/TracyXXs/status/975379101761486848

Join the bloody club.

Indeed.

YY Sarah. I was so angry when she said that. It does exactly that.

If i recall Stella Creasyreferred to that incident as peer on peer sexual offending (not sure of the exact words i.e. sexual offending or harrassment). By refusing to acknowledge the sex of the people involved it minimises what happened and blurs the lines.

NatLuc, it seems fairly common for TIM/F to look back and think that if they'd only been medicated from their early teens they would now look more convincing as their acquired sex. They then assume, based on that belief, that trans kids would be far happier medicated.

However 80% of children discover their desire to "change sex" was only transitory and to give what are really very hazardous treatments to children who are far more likely to change their minds than not is incredibly irresponsible. No reputable HCP should recommend it.

As for your demands for a load of NHS treatment to achieve a cosmetic result, you're not being realistic. There are plenty of women who are flat chested or have facial hair. They don't get free treatment - or very rarely. I have lost my singing voice because of an illness. I'm not expecting the NHS to sort that out either.

I don't understand this new narrative that is being pushed by Mermaids and other trans groups.

They are telling children the following:

1. You have an internal sense of self that tells you if you are 'really' a man, woman or something else.
2. This sense of your own gender is vitally important and cannot be changed.
3. You must find and come to understand this sense of gender before you hit puberty.
4. If you're not sure about which gender you really are, you should delay puberty, because it's very important that your physical body matches your sense of gender.
5. People whose physical body doesn't match their sense of gender are likely to commit suicide.

This narrative is being told to all children,not just those expressing gender dysphoria.

What an incredible amount of pressure to put on children and young people. What about children and teenagers who don't feel this sense of gender? I certainly didn't. I don't believe it's a universal experience at all. Had I been asked to declare my pronouns and my gender at 13 or 14, my life would probably have been completely different.

Kyanite Me too. What is it with our politicians? It's like none of them can see past their nose end. My daughters are all grown up but I have granddaughters and am terrified.

I've no idea spontaneousgiventime, it's very worrying...this tweet was make to Stella Creasy and I didn't notice any reply. My heart goes out to this mother and daughter.

Oh God Kyanite that is just awful. How many cases are hidden/brushed under the carpet?

This one seems to be thriving...

That's great super match. Children can get counselling until they're old enough to make a decision. I am very supportive