Study find trans kids thrive after early transition

Huh, so OP had no comeback to personal experience with the drug, and no comeback to people who’ve actually read the study and pointed out that half the field are missing? Shocker.

If transition through puberty blockade and cross-sex hormones is so disastrous, why are all the young adults in the study so happy?

Because the study excluded the ones who were unhappy or dead as a result of transition.

We don’t actually know how many hadthe surgery out of the 111. It states that four definitely did not, because they were medically ineligible for surgery or they dropped out of care. It only gives figures for 15 exclusions, 11 of which were TIMs, so goodness knows what happened with the other 41.

But at best, 1 out of 95 died post surgery, in an utterly horrific way. 55 others out of 110 are not represented, that’s half the field, but yet the figures are presented as a success.

Agree Starkstaring. It is utterly wrong headed.

1 died? Out of about 100 (I think) that underwent surgery???? Just looked up the chances of dying as a result of cosmetic surgery on the basis that these people are also otherwise healthy. It's 1 in 30,000.

What kind of distorted world view is it that thinks it is better to operate on individuals than help them come to terms with their own body? Or to change society so people don't feel compelled to alter themselves. It's dystopian.

1 transfemale died after her vag- inoplasty owing to a postsurgical necrotizing fasciitis.”

That's awful.

Firstly, they’re assessing them 12 months down the line from surgery, so who knows what their futures will hold and how their future health will be impacted?

Secondly, I’m wondering if you even read past the abstract?

*These adolescents belonged to a group of 196 consecutively referred adolescents between 2000 and 2008, of whom 140 had been considered eligible for medical intervention and 111 were prescribed puberty suppression (see de Vries et al16). The young adults were invited between 2008 and 2012, when they were at least 1 year past their GRS (vaginoplasty for transwomen, mastec- tomy and hysterectomy with ovariec- tomy for transmen; many transmen chose not to undergo a phalloplasty or were on a long waiting list). Non- participation (n = 15, 11 transwomen and 4 transmen) was attributable to not being 1 year postsurgical yet (n = 6), refusal (n = 2), failure to return questionnaires (n = 2), being medi- cally not eligible (eg, uncontrolled di- abetes, morbid obesity) for surgery (n = 3), dropping out of care (n = 1), and 1 transfemale died after her vag- inoplasty owing to a postsurgical necrotizing fasciitis.”

So less than half of that cohort prescribed puberty blockers are included in this study. One of them died - do you assume the rest of them are happy too? Is it not possible that only those who are happy wanted to continue with the study?

Wakame
Can you explain to me why you think that children being helped to come to terms with the body they were born with is such a bad idea?

*sure

Please go away wakame we are all bored of you now. We have already established the study is flawed. I’m becoming a eunuch is a laugh a minute. Go bother someone else.

Good riddance to yet another wind up merchant

I'm surprised that GibbertyFlibbert hasn't accompanied J4nice, given their confidence in asserting that J4nice honestly did bleed every single day

I believe J4nice has now been escorted from the building. Given their trolling posts across a wide number of threads, it's hard to differentiate fact from fantasy in their posting history, so I wouldn't put too much weight on a claim to be trans on their part (they were inhabiting the persona of a bible belt Christian on the thread on sexual health clinics, for instance, and claiming to be autistic on a thread on abortion in NI, not to mention being a lesbian on another thread).

YY

I believe J4nice has now been escorted from the building. Given their trolling posts across a wide number of threads, it's hard to differentiate fact from fantasy in their posting history, so I wouldn't put too much weight on a claim to be trans on their part (they were inhabiting the persona of a bible belt Christian on the thread on sexual health clinics, for instance, and claiming to be autistic on a thread on abortion in NI, not to mention being a lesbian on another thread).

Agree GeorgeFayne .

Thanks George

Do you really wish that J4nice? Did you see my previous comments? I promise you that you’ve had a lucky escape not having these drugs - I’m not surprised that you feel this way when they’re painted as harmless but I guarantee you that’s not the case.

@J4nice, do you ever feel like you're trapped? Like you're constantly trying to summit a mountain on which there really is no peak? I'm just curious if you've ever thought about approaching your identity differently.

It's taken me MANY years to come to accept my physical body for what it is and isn't. And I'm finally content. I might have a few pounds to lose, but I'm more interested in just being healthy than how I look. I feel so grateful to be at a place of self acceptance. I would hope the same for you.

@Lefthanddown
That is beyond dystopian. I feel sick reading that. Truly nauseated.

Can we please dispel the MYTH that men will be the recipients of "womb transplants" in the future and be able to gestate? Anyone suggesting this is grossly ignorant of human physiology.

Pregnancy requires far more than a uterus. Almost every aspect of a woman's body changes to accommodate the growing fetus. Her immune system, her blood volume and heart, her muscles and ligaments, her brain, her kidneys, her gastrointestinal tract, her microbiome--all under the very specialized and orchestrated control of MANY hormones, (not just good ol' estrogen and progesterone). There is simply no possible way that the appropriate balance of exogenous hormones could be given to a male to maintain pregnancy.

Not to mention the gross violation of ethical practice to even attempt. Sickens me.

It's wonderful that the medical profession can help treat these poor kids now

I wish I could have had blockers as a child

@TammySwansonTwo
I'm so sorry for what you've experienced. I'm equally sorry that the medical community has largely ignored (or even actively suppressed?) adverse consequences of GnRHAs. I agree that even if one of my children had precocious puberty, I would be incredibly hesitant to use Lupron.

Several other thoughts about the study:

1. Let's keep in mind study participants were from referrals between 2000 and 2008. Arguably, this is before the era of universal affirmative therapy. In other words, these were very likely children who met the much stricter diagnosis criteria of gender dysphoria that had been the basis for therapy. To apply these results to the 2018 population of trans children and teens, (blockers and hormones offered even on the first assessment in a gender clinic, minimal psychiatric evaluation), is absolutely wrong.
2. As mentioned by others, the follow-up period is far too short. Regret may not come until much farther along in life, when the consequences of their "treatment" are fully evident and meaningful. (Infertility may not be grieved until much later in adulthood.)

1. Finally, to be clear, the journal Pediatrics is indeed the publication of the American Academy of Pediatrics. The AAP is an engineer on the trans train; they are a driving force behind the affirmative approach and you will absolutely not see any trans-critical research published by them. Pediatrics may be a leading journal in the field, but that does NOT mean it is not biased and the AAP can be very self-serving.

Going back a few pages to the mention of transferring uterus from females to males.

I was reading an article the other day where women identifying as trans wanting a hysterectomy were surveyed as to their willingness to donate their uterus for TIM's, if I recall accurately about half were willing, the other half refused/declined to answer.

I found the article quite chilling not least as a side effect of the rise in girls and young women coming out as trans and wanting surgery, is that they could potentially provide a supply of natural material for doctors to experiment on.

Supermatch

Your detailed post was quoting stuff from the 60s and 70s. Is there really nothing more recent that supports your argument?

The first article is from 1973. Is there nothing more recent?

It may be impossible to convince someone delusional that their delusion is not real. The rest of the world should not have to believe in (or pretend to believe in) their delusion.

As I replied to SMG:
The bit you quote from the second article has no references to back it up. If the authors are so sure that people could not be cured of their delusions, then why not cite the studies which showed this to be the case?

Yes there was a detailed reference to back it up which I posted.

The first article is irrelevant as it is about 'curing' a homosexual transsexual of their homosexuality.

It also addressed the subject's feeling that he: felt himself to be a female.

cf article discussed in thread below;

"The transgender movement has transformed cultural norms and social institutions at breathtaking speed. Most of us, becoming acquainted with the trans issue for the first time, are astonished to discover the extent of the gender revolution. The movement has accomplished in a few years what the movements for women’s and for gay and lesbian rights took many decades to achieve.

Part of the explanation is the amount of money behind transgenderism.... "continues

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3260270-Michael-Biggs-Oxford-Sociology-dept-The-Open-Society-Foundations-the-transgender-movement-incl-comparison-with-funding-for-women