Are there any bad men in the Handmaid's Tale

Interesting thread

QuickPorridgeBacon

Thanks for sharing

I’m sorry that happened to you.

I think the accuracy and reflection of our own society was why the scene was so disturbing.

If you asked Waterford what happened that night, he would say and BELIEVE it was consensual.

Yes.

ThisisSparta I found it chilling. I was in a position alone with a man and scared, but I laid there and let it happen. It felt the safer option and like I had no choice. I was also somewhere I didn’t know. I hated that scene as it felt so real and all too familiar.

YY PeakPants, totally agree with all of that

slanetylor

Yes to everything in your post !

That scene was chilling to the bone. But so believable. Men are so easily able to delude themselves. It’s always stunned me that they only see what they want to. If you asked Waterford what happened that night, he would say and BELIEVE it was consensual.

OP I almost think we must have been watching different shows!

My take on Commander Waterford is that he is the worst of all of them! He is a great example of why we have #MeToo - he is in a position of power and he uses that power to manipulate June into believing he is ‘on her side’ and that he can help her, for example he acts like the ‘ceremony’ is a terrible job he must perform, and gives her the ‘my wife doesn’t understand me’ spiel, showers her with gifts and affection and then removes it when she misbehaves.

And the scenes in the hotel have been even worse than the ‘ceremony’ scenes precisely because of the imbalance of power between June and Fred, we see that Fred doesn’t need to physically restrain June to rape her, its also chillingly realistic- how many women have been in that exact situation- somehow found themselves alone and vulnerable with a man who has power over them and who abuses that power.

backaftera2yearbreak Are you on about nick? You realise he didn’t have any choice in that either. Both he and June were told to have sex basically. It’s almost not rape because she agreed (think June says something like that) it obviously is though. But their relationship took a different turn, emotionally first I believe and then it because a choice to get intimate with eachother. I don’t really see it as rape as such. But more a forced situation for both of them (obviously June was technically raped then) I’m confusing the matter I think, but of course rape is not ok and I don’t see anyone that has said that.

OK I have not read the book, but had heard of it and was actually planning on reading it first but it did not happen that way.

The commander is obviously a manipulative rapist asshat however, it did kind of come across that Serena was 'in charge' and it was her that was the really horrible one.

Aunt Lydia..comes across sadistic for sure, however there are rare glimpses where she seems to genuinely care about 'her girls' and seems to not like punishing them.

Nick comes across fairly controlling to me too actually. And a bit of a drip.

I do think that the women come across worse than the men overall. Though I know its not meant to be that way. I also have the book on its way to me, but I fear I will visualize the show now (I prefer reading stuff before watching so that this does not happen)

I was thinking about this thread in the context of the Pride #punchaterf thing going on over at the Twatter. Quite a few of the people posting that are adolescent girls - with some or other "identity" - trying to perform masculinity. It's sad - but not unrelated.

So men raping a woman is acceptable?

Man rapes woman = rescuer.

Somebody help me out here or have I missed the point...

In all seriousness there are many people who are receiving the series as a cautionary tale re radical feminism rather than a commentary on patriarchy

Yup

Omg @pratchet

I completely agree and dd and I were saying the exact same thing after the last episode

It definitely feels deliberate. Even her mum!

The women in “power” are frantic, terrifying and violent because they know that they (generally- Lydia is different) are one mistake, one refusal, one word from a man away from being the victim.

I think Lydia knows that too. She is in a stronger position than most women, partlyy because she's not living in a household with men, but I think she is still aware she is not invincible. Her position depends on at least some of the handmaids getting pregnant, and I think if there was much hint of her letting the handmaids have fun or showing leniency rather than it ensuring it's a punishment for being adulterous fornication types, she would probably be relieved of her position. She knows it, but she's bought into it all the same, partly because it does give her some power.

OT but Rita "I've just been watching a garden-variety murder mystery. At the beginning there was a "feminist" flavored character who made a bit of a flouncy statement that statistically the murderer was likely to be male. I correctly predicted that the murderer would indeed be female because you know "women do it too".

Not only was she female but she was jealous, emotional and a career woman to boot. There's something about women in power that makes us profoundly uncomfortable. Men in power can be nasty or benevolent or any shade in between (as JF's character is). Women in power can only be power hungry bitches."

Was it you that mentioned watching Prime Suspect on Netflix, I'd been wondering where I saw the recommendation

June calls out the fact that it is only men who are able to rescue her - 'Raise your daughter to be a feminist and she spends her time waiting to be rescued by men'.
Just before she gets to the plane.

I agree with pratchet TBH.

I don’t like or enjoy the series at all. It’s a bastardisation of the book that ties in nicely with the shit that gets thrown at rad fems re ‘biological essentialism’

In all seriousness there are many people who are receiving the series as a cautionary tale re radical feminism rather than a commentary on patriarchy.

@LuxuryTime EXACTLY!!!

@BarrackerBarmer

“The men are almost portrayed as passive obedient citizens of the system (or whiteknights) whilst the women seem to be portrayed as revelling in their own cruelty.”

So a well played allegory for the patriarchy?
The average man is a passive obedient citizen with no clue just how complicit he is in the maintenance of the patriarchy.
Women fighting for entry to the boardroom tear one another down instead of asking why the men in the room won’t give them both access?

I think the TV show has been incredibly faithful to the original actually.

Ah, sorry, misremembered how that conversation went. In which case, I agree the wife was being compassionate.

The men in power (e.g: commander) can be calm and relaxed and even indulge themselves in a charade of benevolence because they have no fear for their position. They have delegated the eye ripping and hand burning to others.

The women in “power” are frantic, terrifying and violent because they know that they (generally- Lydia is different) are one mistake, one refusal, one word from a man away from being the victim.
These women, wives etc cannot afford to show their resentment to the men controlling them so they redirect it onto other women.