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Original poster

Are there any bad men in the Handmaid's Tale

263 replies

Pratchet · 03/06/2018 23:34

Nick: lovely rescuer
Commander: offered friendship, acted pained, tried to explain
(Wife: narsty caah)
Van driver: lovely rescuer
Pilot: lovely rescuer
Econohusband: lovely rescuer
(Econo wife: mean and didn't wasn't to help)
Those foreign visitors at the end of season one - man tried to help, woman refused
Clinic assistant male: gave her key to escape

OP posts:
rosylea · 04/06/2018 00:06

I know exactly what you mean, OP, about the TV series and I agree. Don't understand why you think OP has an agenda zebra?

Original poster
Pratchet · 04/06/2018 00:05

Er yes, I think the commander is a bad man. My point is that he is not represented as a bad man.

OP posts:
Battleax · 04/06/2018 00:03

but I think the tv version deliberately disguises the evilness of the men.

It’s remarkably easy to “act pained” and “offer (fake) friendship” when you’re one of the architects of the theocracy, one of the slave-owners and rapists.

It’s not actually much of a disguise, though.

AssassinatedBeauty · 04/06/2018 00:01

And yet he did it anyway! He's not a nice man, just because he felt a bit conflicted doesn't mean he's lovely.

zzzzz · 04/06/2018 00:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Pratchet · 04/06/2018 00:00

Why are you having a go at me? Address it how? They chose to make it look like a reluctant duty which he found rather painful and would rather not do.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 03/06/2018 23:58

I have never thought of Handmaid's Tale as a "feminist representation"

That is a strange concept to me

More, I see it as what is already happening around the world. Patriarchy personified. Which of course pits women against women in a dog eat dog world.

I have seen an example of thos thinking on Mumsnet earlier today. It's all around us, right now. Women not realising how much men hate them, and how much they are already doing the dirty work themselves

esk1mo · 03/06/2018 23:57

pratchet - the commander raped offred, arent you going to address that?

AssassinatedBeauty · 03/06/2018 23:57

It's a fiction book, not a feminist treaty.

It's clear the system was devised by men for the benefit of men, who use the typical divide and conquer techniques to control and use women. Some for their reproductive abilities and some for their manual labour, and some for their willingness to take part in the control.

Slanetylor · 03/06/2018 23:57

*as a story.

Slanetylor · 03/06/2018 23:56

But lots of women in real life are on the men’s side. If all women looked after each other the world would be a totally different place. It takes women complicitness for men to have the power they do. If t was all women good, all men bad, it would be less interesting or effective.

Original poster
Pratchet · 03/06/2018 23:54

And because all the feminists have read the book we think it's all about subtle messages of how patriarchy creates internal misogyny. When everyone else is looking at women torturing women and men rescuing them.

OP posts:
Original poster
Pratchet · 03/06/2018 23:53

What's my agenda - don't get that part. I'm saying what I'm thinking. What I'm thinking is we have all been fooled into thinking this is a great feminist representation. In fact it's a bunch of cliches.

OP posts:
ToeToToe · 03/06/2018 23:53

Actually, I'm now thinking I might be wrong about the mother's picture - I might have to look it up in the book.

Slanetylor · 03/06/2018 23:53

Aunt Lydia is out and out evil. I thinks it’s more interesting that she’s a woman. If June was with the commander every day we would see more of his nasty side.

Original poster
Pratchet · 03/06/2018 23:52

I know the story, I understand all that. I'm talking about a tv series where women are visibly sadistic torturers and abusers and the men are rescuers.

OP posts:
RailReplacementBusService · 03/06/2018 23:52

The commanders don’t have to get their hands dirty though, do they? They have plenty of other people to do the amputating and killing and what not. Try get to maintain distance and can angst about the greater good they need to achieve.

Anyway It is men who do the carrying away and killing. Eg of the Martha that Emily had an affair with.

AssassinatedBeauty · 03/06/2018 23:52

What about the other husbands, like the one who raped Janine and promised her things he knew he couldn't deliver, and then sold her out to try and take her baby? He was nice.

TheSpottedZebra · 03/06/2018 23:51

I feel like you have an agenda here, OP.
Yet I can't be arsed at AS you.

Hmmm.

Original poster
Pratchet · 03/06/2018 23:50

Why can't it be subtle with the women? If we are all so great at getting subtle messages.

OP posts:
Slanetylor · 03/06/2018 23:50

June only meets a few men, so we do too. It’s made clear that the regime will only work if they can get the wives on board. The men orchestrated that, invented rituals that included the wives. But yes, the world only works because many women bought into it. Either by believing the religious nonsense bit, or because they were getting superior lives to everyone else.

TheSpottedZebra · 03/06/2018 23:50

If you hadn't read the book you'd think the women were in charge

Er, no. If you think that women are in charge, you have really misunderstood the whole thing.

bluebunny · 03/06/2018 23:49

The commander is a disgusting sleaze bag..all the husbands are ritualised rapists..the only men that have been vaguely OK are Nick, June's husband and the guy in the bread van.

Original poster
Pratchet · 03/06/2018 23:48

Why can't it be subtle with the women? The women are visibly and obviously torturers and abusers.

OP posts:
ToeToToe · 03/06/2018 23:47

I'm trying to get my head round this at the moment.

Men have all the power, women have none. Women only have a limited amount of power over other women - eg - wives and Aunt Lydias over the handmaidens.

Commander's wife was instrumental in planning the coup - but then lost all power, along with all the other women.

Brothers of Jacob planned how to "sell" the rape of the handmaids to their wives.

Commander was, I agree, a rapist zealot. But could play the benevolent master, because he had all the power.

June's mother was played out well this week I thought. Although, if memory serves - the picture of her mother June sees at the training centre, was of her mother at a feminist protest in the 70s, not of her at the colonies. I think the feminist protest is a stronger image.