What if we fail?

There will officially be 0.6% more women in the world

There won't.

There'll be a few more trans-women in the western world and a few more burnings/stonings/hangings in the rest of the world.

There still won't be streams of women with bloody hands washing their trousers in the sink...

We may fail. Even people right at the top are afraid of transactivists.

Eventually there will be a backlash. A massive backlash. I hope it'll come from feminists, but it might not.

The backlash is happening. It may have "come" from feminists, I'm not sure, but it's gaining momentum. People are peak transing all the time.
I don't buy the "men are invested in this" rhetoric.
Pretty much every man who becomes aware of something like e.g. Hampstead Ponds, changes from "that can't be right", to "is it?" to "that's ridiculous".
People can only oppose things when they are aware of it, and more and more people are becoming aware of it.
This includes men, so if it is a feminist movement or backlash now, it will broaden out eventually.

"And a bunch of sterile adults suffering from god knows what issues through these drugs.""

You mean these ones?:

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958

"And a bunch of sterile adults suffering from god knows what issues through these drugs."

"People turning in to Ken and Barbie with plastic non-functioning genitals."

So many sterile adults... I wonder if that was what happened the the birth rate in THMT?

"WAKAME, regardless of their posting about studies, trans issues, etc, is not particularly bothered about females who feel they are trans and want to become males."

Actually, that was a rushed and incomplete comment - my apologies. But no matter - it's easy to clarify. Essentially, 0.6% of the population is trans, so when you fail, a small number of people you call men will be recognised as women and small number of people you call women will be recognised as men. And, a small group of vulnerable children will be getting the help they need.

Everything else will probably be pretty much the same.

Essentially, you have already failed - I have "girl" on my birth certificate, and I am recognised as female both legally and socially (that's right - I'm one of those scary trans women who passes), and puberty suppression followed by cross sex hormones are becoming the standard protocol in relevant trans child cases.

And they wonder why people call them men in dresses...it's because no other thing about them is in any way behaving like a female.

And these days, not even in dresses. Just men.

Yes they're really a bit very thick and uninformed for such totes excellent feminists aren't they? The manosphere is a fairly well known term. There's always google, kids! (Joss Prior is no kid though - mid 40s)

To TRAs stalking this thread on Twitter and making snide comments

Trans person: I am a lady
Other person: Oh that's interesting. So what are you doing with your life these days?
Trans person: I stalk women online and post snippy comments about their opinions and how they are all wrong
Other person: Oh so you are behaving just like a man, right got it.

People like boy George could put a stop to it and help out

Terfy like: also throwaway gay
@throwawaygay? Not sure

To TRAs stalking this thread on Twitter and making snide comments: this is the'Manosphere' en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manosphere See also:

www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2016/07/05/what-is-the-manosphere

www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/14/the-red-pill-reddit-modern-misogyny-manosphere-men

www.nytimes.com/2017/06/13/magazine/hunting-the-manosphere.html

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/manospherian

When feeling optimistic, I think there is going to be massive back-pedalling from certain quarters, that of course they didn’t support this and were on the side of sanity all along. Not sure how this will play out in the age of the screenshot. I think kindness, but firm honesty are the way to go, and not letting anyone rewrite history.

When pessimistic, like today, I envisage a future where daily life goes on much as it does now, but to borrow a woke phrase, with far more microaggressions felt by women. We no longer see females in sport or public life, but on paper we’ve achieved absolute equality. We’ll be expected to applaud as the stunning and brave and stubbly take everything from us.

I think of this a bit like the way people's concerns about immigration were treated. People who worried about EU immigration in the 2000s were written off by politicians as racists etc. But eventually, when no one listened to them, they took their concerns to the ballot box and brexit happened.

In this case, concerns about gender legislation are being written off as transphobic etc. But that doesn't make the concerns go away.

Well, as pessimistic as I am, particularly as pretty much every uni student buys into this shit, I think we have a bigger breathing space than previously thanks in no small part to fearless journalists, fantastic feminist groups and brave MPs.

Agree with this.... I think some things have been lost and I hope only temporarily and are enough to cause a big backlash (sport, so many Rapid onset girls, Girl Guides)....I truly believe in our power to succeed by bringing these issues to the wider public (yup peak-transing so many), and away from the tiny hothouse of the Labour party and "right-on" organisations... There is a tipping-point: we are not there yet and need to reach far more people but already we have made huge strides in the last couple of months...

@pombear very astute to notice.

"WAKAME, regardless of their posting about studies, trans issues, etc, is not particularly bothered about females who feel they are trans and want to become males.

When the question is asked 'what if we fail', WAKAME focuses on how many more 'women' there will be. Where are all those females (teen girls) who are identifying as males in that post?

See it? The people pushing this agenda, pushing into your space, are not concerned about females, whatever type of females."

We will not fail, the tide is turning. A lot more 'ordinary people' (I mean people who have not been reading this stuff for years) are beginning to see what is going on.

We need to be talking about all the young women and girls caught up in this, it is not just about natal males.

4thwavenow.com/2016/04/27/shrinking-to-survive-a-former-trans-man-reports-on-life-inside-queer-youth-culture/

Picasso you are right, and MN kept the fires burning.

Anyone who's lurking here, still on the fence, trying hard to be a 'trans ally' but feeling conflicted.

As others have pointed out up the thread, WAKAME's post gives the game away.

WAKAME, regardless of their posting about studies, trans issues, etc, is not particularly bothered about females who feel they are trans and want to become males.

When the question is asked 'what if we fail', WAKAME focuses on how many more 'women' there will be. Where are all those females (teen girls) who are identifying as males in that post?

See it? The people pushing this agenda, pushing into your space, are not concerned about females, whatever type of females.

They are not concerned about 'trans' as a whole. They are people (men) who want your space, your identity, your name. Your % in the world.

Women. We are already changing the conversation. It has changed on here enormously in the last six months.

It is changing. Its not really about winning though is it, it's about sanity prevailing.

The underground is already beginning.

I can't help but think that actually they won't be happy even if they do win.

They are already telling trans people they are being trans wrong and making up ever more ridiculous states if existence that completely contradict another identity.

I think they will win however I do think that in their desperation to take over everything, when they finally "become" something that ceases to exist they will have to find something else. Another cause because they can't be who they say they are unless it's something that physically exists.. Eventually it will be impossible to keep them happy and even the allies will have enough.