If you only thought about the good of women and girls...

ratfucking

1. In politics, the use of "dirty tricks" to discredit one's opponent(s). This often takes the form of false or semi-false accusations spread through underhanded means. The term was coined in the 1960s by Hunter S. Thompson and Bob Woodward. The art of ratfucking was brought into the public eye by Karl Rove. Among his ratfucking accomplishments are the 2000 GOP South Carolina primary and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Oh I see, we hate men so much we castrate them.

Well it’s very radical of you but sort of barbaric

How about we just stop socialisaing everyone into restrictive stereotyped roles based on their reproductive sex.

How about we stop any madness that involves children of any sex being told their body is wrong and given experimental drugs because adults around them are uncomfortable with them potentially being homosexual when they grow up....

Gosh, I make no secret about my 'lack of like' towards males, but even I would not propose chemically experimenting on them as children!

What a GC fail this OP is. Or maybe GC stands for Goady Content in this case. But I cannot believe anyone would promote the poisoning of children and their sterlisation for life, along with the other health impacts. All for dress-ups.

Damm, tell us your dog leg cocking theory of gender again, I like that one.

Humans cannot change sex. Physical impossibility. Reality check, here!

@Damnthatonestakentryanother2 Who is the "antitrans cult"? Pretty sure the males who beat up trans women don't even know what "socialisation" means.

" If you allow transgirls to mix with their cis-girl friends, it will undermine their propaganda ... and they don't want that!"

Sure.

speakingwoman
Would it be more logical to encourage so-called trans identifying children to be socialised in their adopted gender, allowed puberty blockers, etc?
There are practical issues to be considered, including the difficulty of getting a 100% reliable diagnosis quickly, and the fact that an incompletely developed peniis makes GRS more complicated and risky.
But the main reason the antitrans cult wl oppose it is because the "socialisation" issue is one of the main planks of their propaganda campaign. If you allow transgirls to mix with their cis-girl friends, it will undermine their propaganda ... and they don't want that!

After all we have grave concerns about trans women
wh were raised with Male socialisation.

The royal "we"? If so, don't "we" also have concerns about raising children with "female socialisation?

As a radical feminist, who is also the mother of multiple sons, no I don’t want a world where we sacrifice any boys for the alleged interests of women and girls. I care about all people equally. Just want to overturn the patriarchy and unfair advantage!

OP, I have reported this piss take as a piss take.

Ah! Mine is Hollyhocks. Safe in any classroom

I am old and it has been my go to substitute for swear words since my first pregnancy over fifty years ago. I do say effing when I am really pissed.

imagine a world where you didn’t care about men and boys

Hang on, your whole OP is about what's best for boys.

You were asking about whether we should give puberty blockers to boys who might be trans in the hope that they might be more socially acceptable transwomen as adults.

How could you consider this topic without contemplating what's good for boys?

So, imagine a world where you didn’t care about men and boys. Wouldn’t you want boys identifying as women to transition early in such a world?

a. I can't imagine this without imagining away the men and boys I love. Why would I want to contrive such an imaginary scenario anyway?
b. you may just as sensibly ask:
"So, imagine a world where you didn’t care about men and boys. Wouldn’t you want boys identifying as women broccoli to transition early in such a world?

The whole concept of 'identifying as' makes no sense and never has.

One cannot, and SHOULD not 'identify as' anything which one is not. In fact, we can leave 'identifying' out of the equation entirely.
The question is not "what do you feeeel yourself to be?"
It is "what ARE you - and does anyone else share those characteristics making you part of a group with common characteristics?"

Let us all simply describe ourselves factually using the language we share to ensure a mutual understanding.

I haven't 'heard' "Criminy" for years

I would much prefer everyone was raised to be happy with who they are and loved for it.

And I would also much prefer that no adult permanently removed a child's ability to grow up have sex and have a family

What right do we have to take away sexual function from children to young to understand what they are giving up

Leave the children alone!
Criminy!

Also, why would we imagine a world where we didn’t care about the male sex? What use is that?

I am just trying to centre women and girls

Then why are you talking about transitioning men?

crikey but we shouldn't ever just centre women and girls. I have two sons and I would like to think that most women wouldn't disregard them just because of their sex.

I really believe that encouraging children to transition is abusive. The idea that we would encourage boys to transition so they picked up the 'right' socialisation......

*So that young trans women had female socialisation."

No. No. No. I don't want anyone , regardless of sex to go through that.

So, imagine a world where you didn’t care about men and boys.

That's one hell of a hypothetical and I can't put myself in that position to respond.

No I don't want more men and boys "transitioning" earlier.

I would like fewer people to hack off parts of their body and take long term damaging drugs in order to manage feeling like their body is wrong.

I'd much rather society helped gender non-conforming people to accept themselves for what they are. That's the transistion I'd like to see.

Remember these boys cannot ever become women. They can hack their bodies about so they look less obviously male, that's all. We should be helping them to accept themselves.

Agree with RabbitsAreTasty.
No-one is born in the wrong body, society needs less gender stereotyping so if you're a feminine boy who likes make up that's fine. No-one has to pretend you are "really" a girl and drug you, the same for unfeminine girls. You can be a girl and still have the career and hobbies you want.

'socialisation' was only ever a piece of the jigsaw.

male and female are utterly, utterly biologically distinct.

There will never be a 'logical' justification for artificially creating a superficial and ineffective facsimile of the opposite sex by surgically mutilating a healthy child and damaging them irrevocably in the process, for the duration of their life.

And for no better reason than the adults around those children are too fucking lazy to think about challenging their own stupid culture and society.

No-one can identify AS or WITH any concept at all, EVER, without first having an idea of that concept in their mind.
And that idea will have been formed from the external world around.

And if we LISTENED to those children when they said "I am a girl/boy" and ASKED them to articulate what their idea of girl/boy is - BEFORE they learned to dodge the question like every trans adult does - you'd get their innocent and utterly messed up ideas completely brimming with rotten stereotypes, from our utterly messed up world.

When kids tell you their messed up ideas about girl and boys, men and women - you fight with all your might to make sure you aren't bedding those ideas in firmly to the next generation. You correct the mistakes and you don't 'affirm' them. For their own sakes and for everybody's.