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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Where do we draw the trans line....?

712 replies

loveyouradvice · 02/06/2018 16:07

Really interesting reading all the Daily Mail comments on latest Man Friday article.... most seemed quite happy with the idea of transsexuals using women's facilities, but no transwomen with dangly bits.

This used to be my position - and may still be so... but I am really concerned the more I read about certain transsexuals (the previously macho late-transitioning type).... those with rampant AGP which leads them to fetishise women's bodies and being in women's spaces in a very mansplainy way.... I feel very squeamish about sharing space with them.... and was deeply shocked by learning that some comb bins for used tampons and pads and wear them to "feel more like a woman" and then celebrate and share this online with other fetishists.....

My suspicion is that for the sake of what one might see as the transsexuals we have long shared space with, out of courtesy and respect, that yes it is okay for them to be in some women's spaces .... But my concern is that with TRAs being so active and the transgender movement steamrollering ahead, that more of the aggressive AGP type are going to feel liberated to come out of the closet and into our spaces....and the balance will shift

I know this is just academic - given that focussing on No Self-Id is our priority - but would be very interested in hearing what other's think as I try to clarify my own position

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/06/2018 17:07

I am guessing that Twitter account is a bit busy reporting all of our nasty posts. Or did that disappear up its own fundament too?

Bored now!

Work seems more appealing, somehow!

spontaneousgiventime · 04/06/2018 17:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

J4nice · 04/06/2018 17:07

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination

J4nice · 04/06/2018 17:05

"You are a bullying misogynist. Trans identified males with GRC are biologically male"

Hate speech and again intended to cause distress and upset

Also a personal attack and mumsnet allow this kind of behaviour, personal attacks against other members get punished but not against the trans community

I have reported this

Truscum · 04/06/2018 17:04

Hey TerfsUp Grin

*when a man does it it's rape when a woman forces sex upon a man or another woman it isn't

That's a breech of human rights, international law and at a minimum is discrimination against gender*

Sorry, did you really say you were an expert in law?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/06/2018 17:04

Stop @ ing me! It's rally bloody annoying. You are needlessly filling up my in box (if that ain't triggering snurggggh )

I can read my name in bold thanks!

And you are wrong. Wrong, wrong wrongeddy wrong!

TerfsUp · 04/06/2018 17:02

I know! And it was just starting to get good.

spontaneousgiventime · 04/06/2018 17:01

Looks like we'll have to wait until tomorrow for the next instalment...

As you were. Grin

TerfsUp · 04/06/2018 17:00

I can't say I've ever used them myself, are they for the 'new modern woman'?

Oh, no! Wax disks are gender inclusive. Report yourself! Grin

Hey, truscum! Nice to see you. Always good to see / hear the voice of sanity.

Bowl, if only. A bit like Little Jack Horner I reached into my handbag for my pass and came out with it, dripping in fresh marmalade. The guard said "erm, that's ok." So then I legged it to the ladies' (hope that term isn't too triggering) to wash my hand.

Thankfully, I was only on the panel and didn't have to present. I'm still scarred by the memory.

J4nice · 04/06/2018 17:00

@CuriousaboutSamphire when a man does it it's rape when a woman forces sex upon a man or another woman it isn't

That's a breech of human rights, international law and at a minimum is discrimination against gender

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/06/2018 16:57

But it still ain't rape!

Apologies, I may have been on the Germaine Greer thread for too long. I seem have forgotten whether I am....

No. I don't think you can say that these days! Arthur and Martha have been placed beyond the Pale, I suspect!

JuzzaL · 04/06/2018 16:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bowlofbabelfish · 04/06/2018 16:52

A woman in England who assaulted another woman with a strap on would be convicted of sexual assault. Not rape.

Under English law, the crime of rape requires a penis.

JuzzaL · 04/06/2018 16:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ereshkigal · 04/06/2018 16:51

Actually not true. There is no doubt about sex. Rather there is a recognition that circumstances matter and that rape centres occasionally need a certain amount of discretion based on appearance. That is very different

That's not true. The exemption is ONLY there because a biological male might cause extra distress. Which of course a rape counsellor wouldn't wish to do, surely?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/06/2018 16:51

Ah! No, I think twice in one day might be pushing my luck Grin

Truscum · 04/06/2018 16:51

I’m finding it concerning that there are so many people with GRC’s popping up all over the internet, with seemingly not even the tenuous grasp on reality.

Have they changed how they are obtained already?

I did pay for extra therapy but do they not still make sure that you understand the realities of what the future holds?

All these people stropping about, screaming abuse and threatening suicide (no, I am not downplaying suicide at all. But it is being used like a weapon currently and it is extremely irresponsible to do so) because strangers won’t accept them for what they want to be.

Did they not go through this with you?

Bowlofbabelfish · 04/06/2018 16:51

Did you style it out, TERFsup?

I have a beautiful mental image of you cooly dipping a knife into your handbag and marmalading a fresh crumpet whilst professionally and seamlessly explaining Something Very Technical to a panel of assembled experts...

spontaneousgiventime · 04/06/2018 16:51

TerfsUp Please be assured my days of running are well and truly over. The days of going arse over tit are too, at my age the best I can muster is base over apex.

I will take very seriously your advice re wax disks. I can't say I've ever used them myself, are they for the 'new modern woman'?

I just wonder what Paddington would have made of all this.

TerfsUp · 04/06/2018 16:50

I can report you, if you like, Curious. Or you could try posting a message in this thread to MN, asking them to delete your post.

TerfsUp · 04/06/2018 16:49

Your pass in a safe place - sorry about the missing word.

TerfsUp · 04/06/2018 16:48

This thread has taken a turn for the weird. But that's ok because I like weird.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/06/2018 16:48

Oh! Did I spend too long actually reading that article?

Slowcoach the Tortoise, that's me.

Oh! Did I just call myself a tortoise? Maybe I should report myself, that must be an insult, mustn't it? Grin

J4nice · 04/06/2018 16:48

@Bowlofbabelfish

You are incorrect. In English law, a penis is required for rape. A woman can be convicted of rape if she is an accessory (eg holding down the victim.) however she has not ‘done the rape’ - she is convicted as basically an accessory.

A woman donning a strap on would be convicted of sexual assault - not rape.

That's wrong it's not treating everyone equally under the law which is a violation of your human rights and such law that was passed was not by the will of the people alive today

TerfsUp · 04/06/2018 16:47

I can confirm that Santa and the Easter bunny are fictional.

WUT

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