Where do we draw the trans line....?

Ereshkigal

I notice you skipped the bit about how distressed you are making me feel as a victim of DV by trying to control me, J4nice. Cuts both ways.

J4nice did the same thing with me earlier in the thread. They implied I had said some shitty things that I hadn't (MNHQ agreed and deleted) when I mentioned that those accusations caused me distressed J4 just ignored and returned to what about Me, me me.

Rinse and repeat

I was going to suggest Moonpig. Sorry, sorry, I'll get my coat.

the estimate was that anywhere between 30% and 60% of trans people would make at least one suicide attempt

There is much evidence that accepting a more gender critical or realistic view of oneself leads to alleviating suicidal ideation and improving mental health in gender confused individuals.
The trans cult causes feelings of despair and self hate. That is evidenced in the findings.

Hallmark do a lovely selection scarlet

Where can I get an I'm a poor woman being mistresses card?

Might be worth mentioning that 70% of transgender people have mental health problems either currently or at some point in their life.

True, yet they want to de-medicalise GNC when it needs it badly.

Might be worth mentioning that 70% of transgender people have mental health problems either currently or at some point in their life.

YY. And they need decent, appropriate interventions.

I've made no threats of suicide or any other nature

I wasn't addressing you. As pp said, not everything is about you.

I'm a poor woman being mistresses card Scuse you!!??!!??

Humans cannot change sex, Janice.

This is not hate speech - people politely disagreeing with you on the web is not hate speech. It is a fact. A Male remains a Male. There is no mechanism for a human to change sex.

If this upsets you, and if you find that the answers you’re getting are causing you upset, I would suggest stepping away from the internet for a bit.

And I'm only mentioning it because you have mentioned how our behaviour is making you feel. If you hadn't I would just suck it up as women are always expected to do.

I notice you skipped the bit about how distressed you are making me feel as a victim of DV by trying to control me, J4nice. Cuts both ways.

I’m also misgendering myself with my username. And miss classing myself, as I am not in fact, a baronet.

J4nice has now just filled this thread with threats, accusations and misogyny. It wouldn't surprise me if it's zapped.

It's not possible to change your biological sex. Born a male, die a male.

Sorry gibberty but nobody here, even inth post you quote, downplay suicide.

There is a major difference in that TRAs come here to goad. They can stop any time they like. That and you really don't know if anyone is what they present themselves as....

Also, what you are telling us is that we must revert to our genderised stereotype and play nice! Not going to happen on a board where women gather to speak freely about womens issues. This is one of the places we come to be who we are without those shackles!

And nobody, man, woman or child, is going to stop that from happening, here or in real life. Especially not by asking us to play up to the patriarchal stereotype that is the root cause of the issues under discussion!

It's not intended to cause distress.It is causing distress and is unlawful

Please don't make light of the problem of suicide or underestimate how badly the misgendering and hostility we are seeing here might affect people.

This is emotional blackmail. You cannot control other people's thoughts and speech with suicide threats. This has happened to me. It is a manipulative tactic. Look up the Duluth Model of power and control.

And as for hostility, you need to think about the effects of transgender ideology on women.

Hate speech and again intended to cause distress and upset

It's not intended to cause distress. It's a statement of biological fact. As a survivor of domestic abuse I find this abusive controlling behaviour distressing.

"All these people stropping about, screaming abuse and threatening suicide (no, I am not downplaying suicide at all. But it is being used like a weapon currently and it is extremely irresponsible to do so) because strangers won’t accept them for what they want to be."

Years ago I volunteered in a Yahoo group to help suicidal trans people. I would often spend hours passing the time with people until the crisis passed. In some cases, talk didn't work and I had to get ambulances sent. I haven't seen recent statistics but at that time the estimate was that anywhere between 30% and 60% of trans people would make at least one suicide attempt. Hopefully it has come down as society has become more tolerant but if the hostility I am seeing on MumsNet becomes the norm, it will surely grow again.

Please don't make light of the problem of suicide or underestimate how badly the misgendering and hostility we are seeing here might affect people.

This transgender topic is spiralling somewhat.

It would be easier to have all public unisex toilets and have cleaning attendants in them all the time (helps a bit with employment but also keeps a dirty place clean). The attendants would also be able to make sure the toilets are a safe place for all.

As for used sanitary ware - I think it should always go into a sealed container (locked). Hygiene/preventing over spillage etc. And anyone digging it out actually needs psychological help (not being mean, but that is quite disturbing).

However, the spiralling part comes with the 'identifying as' culture. I think that is a whole load of crap. You are either one or the other. If you are pre op you are still the gender you were born into (even a man with tits). If you don't have the op (and don't intend to have it) then no amount of make up and skirts will cut it (assuming you are man wanting to be woman) you are still your biological gender. Now that may be me being pig headed...........but where is the line drawn with say sport....a man identifies as a woman and is running say the London marathon for the 1st prize but is not actually a woman, will have an unfair advantage.

So let's keep it simple. Unless you have nuts and plonker via biologically or had surgery you are a man

If you have a flower biologically or had surgery you are a woman.

Anything in between that 'identifies' or 'feels like' - basically does not have the suggested 'bits' then is still their biological gender. There is too much grey area in between to patrol this.

In an ideal world we could all be whatever we wanted, unicorns, sausages, attack helicopters...but we are not in an ideal world and never will be.

This that feel there is too much presidium in the world maybe right but are equally predicted towards those who have a different opinion to theirs. Right or wrong. People have to accept that not everyone will accept.

All these people stropping about, screaming abuse and threatening suicide (no, I am not downplaying suicide at all. But it is being used like a weapon currently and it is extremely irresponsible to do so) because strangers won’t accept them for what they want to be.

You're so right, Tru. It's pathologically controlling. They can't force us to believe they are women. This is not female socialised behaviour. It's male dominance.