Where do we draw the trans line....?

Well here's just one
Target voyeurism and sex crimes trebled after changing room policy allowed self identification

Dame. Nice diversion not answering my question.

I didn't raised the issue of perverts peak did. I merely responded. But if you want to know more about AGP there are plenty of threads on here you can read.

And why is a feminist board reducing a whole spectrum to birth-males? What about trans-men?
Quite new to gender critical feminism I see.

Women's spaces for women. No exceptions.

And no penises / testicles.

So you really think people will change their identity to female for kicks? Go through all the paperwork for a prank? When gender is more core to people's sense of identity than their names?

And that gender identity being so core, I just can't justify denying someone their identity, however it's expressed (assuming of course no harm to others).

And re any prevalence of perverts - do you have a statistical breakdown?

I've moved my views across the spectrum from Tw are W to now believing that facilities etc should be separated by biological sex. If people who claim to be trans don't want to use the spaces/sports/prisons of their biological sex then let them campaign for a third space.

I understand why some organisations like WPUK tread more of a middle line - in the short term it's likely to be more successful. But I'm with the others who are out here pulling the Overton window back to sanity and safety.

Here you are: a short list of people who changed their names by deed poll because they felt like it.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/meet-the-people-whove-given-themselves-88857.amp

I'm sorry but I think self ID is a terrible idea for a number of reasons. That doesn't mean I'm anti trans.

So you think the law will be that trans women will have to show their self declaration documents before being given access to sex segrated spaces?

Then I suggest you take it up with all the Starbucks outlets across the country that have always had unisex toilets.

Perverts are always going to pervert - and are no more likely to identify as trans than any other creep. And yet... so many have, so well documented, over such a long period of time, depending on which countries you look at! So many threads that link to them too!

Mmmm!

And it's easy enough to put on a pair of overalls to access any single-sex space waving a work order.

Making a declaration under self ID is like changing your name by deed poll - not something people can do for half a day when they feel like it.

Perverts are always going to pervert - and are no more likely to identify as trans than any other creep.

I have already said what I mean above. The current inclusion of everybody under the trans umbrella including those with sexual fetishes and the aggression of TRAs means I'm not comfortable with any male born person in a female single sex facility.

That isn't my fault and I am allowed my own boundaries.

Also if a man is already prepared to break the law by installing covert cameras why wouldn't they pretend to be trans to access single sex facilities. Pretending to be trans under self I'D would be the easiest thing in the world.

I draw the line at not giving the tiniest shit what's in someone else's undies, and I don't get why this is an issue for people.

And why is a feminist board reducing a whole spectrum to birth-males? What about trans-men?

And as a woman that's had all kinds of crap over the years from the patriarchy, I'm pretty sure hardcore biological determinism is playing right into misogynist hands.

Do you think the current push on self ID will be abused by those perverts as mentioned in your post to gain access to single sex facilities?

There will always be the odd case, I am sure. I don't think unisex facilities are a bad thing where they consist of single self-contained cubicles with a sink. If you go to somewhere like Sweden, you will find that many toilet facilities are unisex cubicles and have been for a very long time. I don't think they have an exponentially high rate of people being filmed on the toilet.

Also, it undermines the argument when you talk about how perverts will 'pretend' to be trans and gain access (like Sarah Ditum said on genderquake) when in actual fact, you don't want 'real' transwomen there anyway. So why bother talking about people who 'fake' being trans? Just come out and say what you mean.

The alleged practice of stealing used sanitary towels is clearly disgusting but I suspect is unique to a very small number of fetishists and the suggestion that this might now become commonplace all of a sudden is quite frankly absurd.

PeakPants

Do you think the current push on self ID will be abused by those perverts as mentioned in your post to gain access to single sex facilities?

Starbucks and other coffee shops often have a mixed sex single cubicle toilet. There is just not enough room in most of them to have single sex toilets. It has nothing to do with transgender and more to do with a pervert installing a camera in a toilet. Are people now saying that they will refuse to use the same single self-contained cubicle as a men/trans women? Because if so, you might find that your options are a bit limited.

I have lots of issues with the whole trans movement, but this doesnt extend to people with genuine dysphoria that actually transition as much as they can. I especially have no issue with trans people that dont try and shit all over womens protected spaces.
Unfortunately I cant tell who is who, and it makes me nervous, because it looks like a lot of these people wish me actual phsyical harm

I read that stuff on Twitter about pp wearing used tampons and sanitary towels too, so gross! I'm now suspended from Twitter for saying a certain person, who is a biological male, is a man. They won't allow me back on until I delete my tweet.

So I am forced to lie and self censor to have a voice now.

Fuck that shit

Cameras in Starbucks? Any links to this please. This is really disturbing

I'm happy sharing changing rooms and toilets with transwomen who have had genital surgery to remove their penises. I think if you really hate your male body and want to identify as a woman then this should be an obvious thing to do anyway. If you don't want to give up your penis then you obviously aren't that gender dysphoric and are still invested in your maleness and male sexuality so not a transwoman.
I don't believe having your penis removes turns you in to a woman and I think it's a shame you couldn't find happiness within the body and sex identity you were born with but that's not my problem and sharing facilities with someone who has gone to that extent to appear female is fine by me. Happy to use female pronouns for transwomen without penises as well.
I think (hope) the tampon fetishists are probably a very small minority although males are more in to sexual fetishes than females..

Where do I draw the line? At birth.

If change needs to happen, it should be society accepting effeminate men and butch women as they are. Biology matters and no amount of drugs and surgery will change that. Fact.

For decades this has hardly ever been an issue. Many women, myself included, were quite happy to share toilets, changing rooms and many other spaces with transwomen. And I doubt many men give transmen a second thought.

But the current TRA/AGP aggression has made me far less accepting. Once they started with the "We are women and so demand access to ALL female spaces, including refuges" shit I changed my mind entirely.

Purely because of the aggression, lack of respect and refusal to enter into open debate, I too would know say no men, at all! And I'd probably help pay for a gene scanning machine to be invented and installed in relevant doorways.

That shouldn't surprise anyone with even a rudmentary knowledge of physics: Every action has an opposite and equal reaction

AKA Push me, shove you, oh yeah says who? As some daft characters in an equally daft film once said!

A man taking female hormones doth not a woman make. Neither does any amount of surgery. Women's spaces for women. No exceptions.

A man's internal thoughts and ideas and identity are not closer to those of mine because he has surgically altered his body.

There is literally nothing a man can do to his body that makes him anything other than a man. Women are not men with body modifications. We're also not a personality type that certain men also have.

It was always a mistake to introduce this pretence of men becoming women and we should have learned lessons that ratifying a lie is disastrous. We should never have lied to these people in the first place. You can't sustain this lie and it is becoming explosive trying to.

My line is simply the truth. It's a hard line, but there it is.