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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Where do we draw the trans line....?

712 replies

loveyouradvice · 02/06/2018 16:07

Really interesting reading all the Daily Mail comments on latest Man Friday article.... most seemed quite happy with the idea of transsexuals using women's facilities, but no transwomen with dangly bits.

This used to be my position - and may still be so... but I am really concerned the more I read about certain transsexuals (the previously macho late-transitioning type).... those with rampant AGP which leads them to fetishise women's bodies and being in women's spaces in a very mansplainy way.... I feel very squeamish about sharing space with them.... and was deeply shocked by learning that some comb bins for used tampons and pads and wear them to "feel more like a woman" and then celebrate and share this online with other fetishists.....

My suspicion is that for the sake of what one might see as the transsexuals we have long shared space with, out of courtesy and respect, that yes it is okay for them to be in some women's spaces .... But my concern is that with TRAs being so active and the transgender movement steamrollering ahead, that more of the aggressive AGP type are going to feel liberated to come out of the closet and into our spaces....and the balance will shift

I know this is just academic - given that focussing on No Self-Id is our priority - but would be very interested in hearing what other's think as I try to clarify my own position

OP posts:
MsMcWoodle · 03/06/2018 16:25

Sorry, Gibbert..

Sarahconnor1 · 03/06/2018 16:25

Discussing sex based protections isn't transphobia

MsMcWoodle · 03/06/2018 16:24

Gibbot - Why is important to you to silence people?

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:22

They dealt with it. Transphobia is always deleted.

MsMcWoodle · 03/06/2018 16:22

J4 - agree with spontaneous. This seems a strange place to hang out if you don't want to hear opposing views. What are you thinking by it?

GibbertyFlibbert · 03/06/2018 16:21

All I know is that MN feels like a very uncomfortable space for people who have undergone gender reassignment because of all misgendering and transphobia. That's a problem which MN will need to deal with - and soon.

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:20

misgendering in real life is, at the very, very worst, rude! Not a crime

Well... Curious in New York it is actually a crime with a potential fine of $250,000.

Not in this country though. Thank fuck.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/06/2018 16:20

Oops! That should realluy have read

^The continued bullying tactics, vague threats and generally male pattern behaviours coming from TRAs and their clueless allies have completely changed my opinion.

Still an own goal!

spontaneousgiventime · 03/06/2018 16:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:18

Deliberately misgendering someone in a public space is unacceptable

I find it unacceptable that someone will force me to use counter-intuitive pronouns. It's psychological control.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/06/2018 16:17

Erm... you see I never did see the logic there.

How can someone be misgendered on an internet forum where every single poster is anonymous. Any one of us could be male or female, black, white, young, old etc.

And misgendering in real life is, at the very, very worst, rude! Not a crime. If misgendering becomes a crime then anyone using the term cis about many posters here would also be arrested. That's how it works, in real life.

Twitter logic, where you report and get someone deleted from the twitterverse is social media phenomenon, not a law, and, as far as I can tell, is done by an algorythym that needs re-programming.

So, to reiterate, I have no idea who you are, but if you claim to be a woman by virtue of a GRC then I disagree. You might like to know that about a year ago I would have agreed with you, but behaviours, such as yours here, have changed my mind. The continued bullying tactics, vague threats and generally male pattern behaviours, have completely changed my opinion.

A bit of an own goal, wouldn't you say?

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:17

@MsMcWoodle so let me gets this straight, you are calling me a bully beause legally I am female and I have told you that I am legally female and hold a GRC, becasue iv reported hateful posts which are abusive, you are calling me a bully?

tsonlyme · 03/06/2018 16:17

Legal options 😂

Sarahconnor1 · 03/06/2018 16:16

Bloody hell this isn't twitter, women are allowed an opinion. You aren't going to change anyone's minds by trying to silence them and you can't police thoughts.

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:15

@spontaneousgiventime

J4nice Please do carry on reporting me. You biologically cannot change sex, it's impossible, so you are a TIM.

Believe me I am reporting and considering my legal options

MsMcWoodle · 03/06/2018 16:14

J4Nice - you're not going to change anyone's mind by forcing them to partake in your beliefs. It just makes you look like a bully.

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:13

@ChickenMe please show me where I stated this? I did not say anything about the police, The OP problaly will be banned unless mumsnets admins are transphobic

spontaneousgiventime · 03/06/2018 16:12

J4nice Please do carry on reporting me. You biologically cannot change sex, it's impossible, so you are a TIM.

Ereshkigal · 03/06/2018 16:10

There should be standard separate wards and a mixed 'female' ward which can be opted into if anyone wants too.

YY. There are surely lots of trans inclusive women who wouldn't mind being next to Jane Fae in the next bed while they were in a hospital gown.

LangCleg · 03/06/2018 16:09

Sod that, I’m going back outside to find the ice cream LangCleg

Good for you!

ChickenMe · 03/06/2018 16:08

You do know that reporting people isnt the same as calling the police?

You can report all day long if you want but people are free to think what they like and provided they don't break the law-say it too.

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:07

@GibbertyFlibbert

"Having a GRC doesn’t mean that you get to force posters on the internet to agree with you"

Deliberately misgendering someone in a public space is unacceptable.

This is a public space (mumsnet) and being abuse by calling a TIM is hateful and done to cause distress I am a woman and calling me offensive names will not be tollerated aand reported

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/06/2018 16:07

putting down a specific group of people I wondered that too Ereshkigal Quite chilling, really!

terryleather · 03/06/2018 16:06

To be a transwoman you must have been born male and since human beings cannot change sex they are still male.

It's not hate, it's fact even if some people don't like it. If you don't like it take it up with reality instead of scolding posters here.

And maybe take Truscum's advice in their previous post which is wise and sensible.

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn as it quoted a deleted post.