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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Where do we draw the trans line....?

712 replies

loveyouradvice · 02/06/2018 16:07

Really interesting reading all the Daily Mail comments on latest Man Friday article.... most seemed quite happy with the idea of transsexuals using women's facilities, but no transwomen with dangly bits.

This used to be my position - and may still be so... but I am really concerned the more I read about certain transsexuals (the previously macho late-transitioning type).... those with rampant AGP which leads them to fetishise women's bodies and being in women's spaces in a very mansplainy way.... I feel very squeamish about sharing space with them.... and was deeply shocked by learning that some comb bins for used tampons and pads and wear them to "feel more like a woman" and then celebrate and share this online with other fetishists.....

My suspicion is that for the sake of what one might see as the transsexuals we have long shared space with, out of courtesy and respect, that yes it is okay for them to be in some women's spaces .... But my concern is that with TRAs being so active and the transgender movement steamrollering ahead, that more of the aggressive AGP type are going to feel liberated to come out of the closet and into our spaces....and the balance will shift

I know this is just academic - given that focussing on No Self-Id is our priority - but would be very interested in hearing what other's think as I try to clarify my own position

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/06/2018 16:59

and now people are resorting to using the N word Shall I remind you who started that? You'll have to report yourself Smile

GibbertyFlibbert · 03/06/2018 16:58

"SO having a GRC indicates a disability?"

Yes. The Equal Opportunities Commission, before it was incorporated into the Equality and Human Rights Commission, had guidance which stated that gender dysphoria, when strong enough to require transition, was a disability for the purposes of the Disability Discrimination Act and the Equality and Human Rights Commission still recognise it is - although it is hard to find that in writing.

Misgendering someone with gender dysphoria is particularly scummy because it makes their dysphoria worse. It's morally equivalent to making fun of a blind person or someone in a wheelchair.

That also mean that a reasonable adjustment falls on service providers. So, for instance, providing access to toilets falls under disability rights legislation too. Keeping people with a female passport or driving licence out of female only spaces would almost certainly be challengeable as a failure to make a reasonable adjustment for the disability of gender dysphoria. The rad fems aren't looking in the right place - the real protection for many trans people lies under the protected characteristic of disability. To unpick that is going to be almost impossible :)

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/06/2018 16:58

Ooh!

a) Singular, not plural
b) I don't think it's a a racist slur if their is no victim, it's just a word - and you alluded to it first.

Report away. I reported you for saying that being trans is a disability. Nasty!

Hyppolyta · 03/06/2018 16:57

I draw the line at biological sex.

A few years ago I assumed most transwomen were just normal people, who just wanted a wee in peace.

Then up pop people like J4nice

I happily used female pronouns out of respect.
When someone biologically male screams we must agree theyre female, its abuse, harassment, disabilist, to know the truth, I see gaslighting. It isnt acceptable for us, as a society, to be forced to lie. That isnt respect, its censorship.

I dont care what someone is legally. I want spaces for biological females only, so I can have privacy away from people who display such high levels of male socialisation and agression.

A male can be trans.
A male can not be a woman.

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:56

@spontaneousgiventime

J4nice Oh do behave. You came on here throwing your weight around and are now squealing like a stuck pig because the women here stood up to you.

so let me gets this straight, you called me a pig, others called me a TIM and now people are resorting to using the N word

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:56

I think you'd be hard pushed to prove a case of harassment on this thread.

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:55

you are using racial slurs @CuriousaboutSamphire reported

spontaneousgiventime · 03/06/2018 16:54

J4nice Oh do behave. You came on here throwing your weight around and are now squealing like a stuck pig because the women here stood up to you.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/06/2018 16:54

Smile Ah, I have missed Silly Sundays. Thanks!

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:52

@spontaneousgiventime its the same tune you sing when you try to justify hate, thats where

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/06/2018 16:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

spontaneousgiventime · 03/06/2018 16:51

Women shut up and do as you are told Where have we heard that before?

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:50

@Opheliah

Malicious comunication, harassment, I could go on

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:49

A hate crime needs to involve a criminal offense.

Misgendering on the Internet is not a criminal offense.

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:48

@JuzzaL so you are blaming me for objecting to being harassed, called offensive names that are just as offensive as the N word

Nice

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/06/2018 16:48

Juzzal I have already told J4Nice on this very thread, about 30 minuets ago, that that is precisely what happened to me. A year ago I would have said she, now, not a bloody chance! Why? Cos, well, TRAs.

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:48

Oops

Where do we draw the trans line....?
Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:47

J4nice

Oh for the love of god.

Here's a screen grab for you. Because I care about you.

MsMcWoodle · 03/06/2018 16:47

A lot of people hold views I disagree with. I still think that they have a right to hold them (unless they are inciting violence) and that you can't bully people into agreeing with you.
This is Feminism Chat. It's about and for women and girls.
Anyone else feeling like we've been here before. Garden, I think.

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:46

@Opheliah I would encourage you to report any threats, there are none

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/06/2018 16:45

Irrefutable logic there, Erishkigal

Naught J4!

JuzzaL · 03/06/2018 16:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

J4nice · 03/06/2018 16:45

@Opheliah that is incorrect and further shows the extent of the ignorance on here

Opheliah · 03/06/2018 16:44

Ereshkigal
Quite.

Ereshkigal · 03/06/2018 16:44

Ah! SO having a GRC indicates a disability? No...

Confirmed TERF! Most TRAs would say that was unacceptable transphobia.

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