Trans Kids Are Less Conservative About Gender Roles Than Cis Kids

Sex stereotypes are harmful, if you promote them then you're sexist.

There are no such thing as trans or cis kids, just kids, males, females and very rarely children who are intersex.

People who care about children are fighting hard to remove sex stereotypes so that children can wear what they like and grow up to be healthy, happy adults.

People who don't care about children are pushing rigid stereotypes and encouraging children to believe that sex is optional.

I know whose side I'm on.

Rowantrees just wanted to say, that twitter thread is AWESOME. It actually brought tears to my eyes.

My little girl often tells stuff like "boys say they are better at science than girls" - my response is always along the lines of the tweeter. But I've never had a real astronaut come along to back me up

But it’s totally contradictory.

To BE trans is to enforce a rigid gender role.

If you didn’t give a fuck about gender roles, you’d just be you. A girl, or a boy, being a girl or a boy in whatever way they wish.

But to then say you’re trans is identifying with a specific gender role.

Do you not see the whole setup IS enforcing gender roles?

I would, and did, seek psychological support fro my child, who at the age of 9 was talking about wanting to die

Well, my child would be receiving psychiatric help by that stage. I would be keeping an open mind about what the specific issue was- but obviously gender dysphoria would be one of the possible diagnoses.

Steady on Bertrand. That's dangerously close to common bloody sense! Stating the sodding obvious, even!

"What if they keep saying it? And by the age of 7, they have started to withdraw from the world. By 8, they are starting to self harm"
Well, my child would be receiving psychiatric help by that stage. I would be keeping an open mind about what the specific issue was- but obviously gender dysphoria would be one of the possible diagnoses.

What about rachel Dolzeal or whatever her name is...

Should we be also helping children to transition to living as a different skin colour?

Some things you just can't change. No matter how much you might want to.

The world is becoming fairly accepting of people living and expressing themselves however they wish... but we don't have to "trans" anyone for them to just be them and come to terms with what life dealt them

Wac: I don't see anyone saying transgender people don't exist.

I just see people saying that not identifying with a particular gender does not make you trans and that many people can come to terms with their body and identity without resorting to chemical and surgical aids and if they can then that is a healthier way to live and should therefore be heavily supported.

And many mothers know that children say and true lay believe lots of things as they are growing up and only a few of those things are really fundamentally true to the child and persist into adulthood.

And I also see people trying to bully people into treating trans people as identified by the sex they desire . This is annoying because most /many women don't want to be treated according to their sex except in cases where their sex make sure them vulnerable. So if I treat you as I would any other human , I am treating you with the kind of respect I would like extended to me.

And in the cases where a woman's sex makes her vulnerable and so wanting special treatment, well in those cases transwomen are as much of a threat as normal men. I.e. Not all of them by any means but enough that law gives us additional safeguarding rights

5 points. Can you address each ?

Oh! Sorry WAKAME. Does your personal lived experience get to trump all others? Are you the blueprint for the human race?

Nobody, well, no sensible person, would repudiate your life story. We are all intelligent enough to know that for some kids your life story is something they will relate to.

However, your are a statistical anomaly. An individual that we would all hope society does, or very soon should, be able to accommodate for all individuals. But none of us would want to change the way we raise ALL children in order to give them ALL your lived experience.

Some research I did on gender stereotypes and roles amongst children who are claimed to be transgender.

Common Threads And Narratives of Transgender Children And What This Means For Our Lesbian And Gay Populations

What exactly do you think goes on in a gender clinic? Personally, having helped a friend transition, I know what happens when a woman transitions to male. I even know how they build the penis, in detail!

It's not about forcing a gender non-conforming child to be trans, it is about identifying children with gender dysphoria (some of whom are gender non-conforming) and then considering the best option for dealing with that dysphoria. Like many others here I don't think there is anything appropriate or 'best option' for a child in a gender clinic. In a psychologist office, yes, in a medicalised space, no!

There is more than one medical opinion on gender/trans and children. You must surely have understood that all GC women would be extremely wary of any irreversible medical treatment for pre-pubescent children?

"I could probably really easily turn my kid into a "trans" kid if I didn't just use common sense to explain we don't get a choice in everything in life"

If it's so easy to change a child's gender identity by simply telling them they don't get a choice, why don't you set up a clinic offering "cures" for trans kids using the same method? You could make a fortune.

This thing called morals and common sense. That's the reason I don't. It's also not changing a child's gender identity- it's explaining the one they are.

At that point, you might want to take them to speak to an expert on gender dysphoria

Absolutely... this is a very good point. Link here to an interesting & nuanced talk given by Dr Polly Carmichael (Head of GIDs, UK ). In it she discusses the wider context, evidence base dilemmas & support the service provides to children and young people.

soundcloud.com/user-664361280/dr-polly-carmichael-developments-and-dilemmas

** GIDS=Gender Identity Development Service of the Tavistock and Portman Trust, which is the NHS centre of excellence for helping children and adolescents with gender dsyphoria and other issues of gender-variance.

Have trans women who are in this group because they are women, and also feminists, stated that they find it offensive to be referred to as "men" or "TIMs", or "trannies"? If not, let me be the first

So this is payback then?

I used to refer to TIMs as transwomen until one told me to go fuck myself. I don't see the point any more. It obscufates reality.

Although the only time I saw tranny used on here was from a trans woman who then screenshot it to prove how hateful we are.

Probably for the same reason you don't answer all/any questions asked of you here - she can't be arsed!

"This is no surprise to trans people of course - we spend our lives fighting against imposed gender roles "

And you think natal women don't? And many natal men who are unhappy with the gender roles society imposes on them?

Well, if that happened any reasonable parent would have made an appointment with a GP.

Just because a minority of children do have dysphoria does not mean all children who do not conform to gender stereotypes must be dysphoric!

It's about treating all people as individuals and not using one persons lived experience to describe that of all people!