General anger and resentment towards men

Good ole Cordelia Fine said:

when the going gets tough the smart do something else

There’s so much else to do in life apart from finding the perfect man in an imperfect world. If a lovely man plopped himself in my lap I wouldn’t say no but in the meantime I have a lot to be getting on with.

Over the last few years I have learnt alot on here (you're all fab by the way!), and have reflected a lot on my past and previous relationships with men (friends, family and romantic relationships).
I have developed a real underlying anger and seeping resentment towards men in general. I feel bad about this but can't help see how the patriarchy has moulded alot of the men in my lives. Even those who would claim they're feminists have an underlying tone of misogyny, I even see it in DH.
Has anyone else gone through this and how have you overcome the bitterness? It's eating me up.

Hang out on some Men's Rights forums for a while and you'll develop a real underlying anger towards women. After the 43rd account of a man losing his children because of court bias or being physically beaten by his wife and unable to do anything about it or false allegations, you'll see the problems with women.

Hang out on some EDL or Identitarian forums and you'll develop a real underlying anger towards Islam. After the 100th account of a woman being forced to marry against her will or not allowed out of the home, a child having their genitals mutilated or someone being discrimated against because they're White, you'll see the problems with Muslims.

Hang out on some trans people forums and you'll develop a real underlying anger towards cis people. After the 100th account of someone being kicked out by their parents for being trans or having people follow them down the street laughing for wearing make-up or being called mentally ill, you'll see the problem see the problems with "TERFs".

Any group identity will develop a degree of judgement and hostility towards the outgroup. This is psychological fact. We are not as free from bias as we think. Not even close. We have a natural confirmation bias and a generally deplorable inability to understand statistics. Every group that is comprised by people in a way other than by behaviour, is going to contain bad elements. Define them as a particular group (race, sex, orientation, nationality) and your brain will start associating those bad elements with the group. We have a demonstrated cognitive bias to associate negatives with a group more than we do positives. Again, absolute psychological fact. We are neurologically wired to be risk averse. If you have two experiences with men, one positive one negative. Then every further man you meet who is bad will be "typical" and every man you meet who is good will be "he was better than most". Just as for someone else a woman who can't do something will be "well, she's a woman" and a woman who can do something will be "she was pretty good for a woman". I'm not being patronising here - this is how the human brain works.

Take that negative/positive reinforcement discrepancy and then add the issue of using other people's experiences to inform you as well, from a forum that is self-selected to be about negative experiences, and you're entering a death spiral of reinforcement.

It's good that you have recognized something has changed. You didn't think of men as an outgroup as much before you joined here. Now you do. Men have not changed. Nor have you become "more aware". You have become more focused on defining an outgroup and self-selected for negative views over positive, because that's what your brain has been fed. Nobody is without bias. Not unless they don't think of themselves as part of a group identity.

Of my close friends none of us would bother with another man if our current ones left/ died. We’ve all got dc so would be single mothers and not all of us have high flying careers so would not find it easy to support our families on our own.

The men I know are not worth the effort. The good doesn’t outweigh the bad, dull and unthinking even if they are good fathers and hard working and in most cases well paid. The constant sexist jibes, lack of respect for women in general and the expectation we’ll do all the emotional labour doesn’t make up for running the hoover round once a week.

When you’re in your younger years and you believe that having a man is having it all you put up with it and if you’re lucky you find a man that grows with you and doesn’t see you as less of a person than him. I remember a clever but hopeless boyfriend and my fantasy was I’d support him through a glittering academic career by getting a dependable job at the council - luckily he left me for another woman!

Women certainly put up with a lot of shit from men, don't they?
No, I refuse to play that game.
Nor even defend them, when being relatively 'shit free'. My standards would be higher than that.

"It's not just about family and sexual relationships though. It's about men in workplaces, on the street, in positions of decision-making power, etc."

Yes, this. Thoroughly depressing & once you see it you cannot unsee it.

All men internalise these messages to some degree. The one bug bear I have with my DH is that he often has to check stuff himself in case I might have got it wrong - even in the situation when I am the subject matter expert (!) or where I've done extensive research. I do call him out on it though, especially when a man's opinion doesn't get questioned.

...or talking about my career specialism to other people in front of me / over me as if he knows more about it (tbf he doesn't do that anymore since I nipped that in the bud years ago .. ahem ..very clearly....)

don't blame all men for rape.

Sorry bloody typos, on phone!

He lived alone for over a decade!

"Has anyone else gone through this and how have you overcome the bitterness? It's eating me up."

Yes, I have. To be honest I still sometimes feel it. I know I M fortunate I am married to a very nice, hard working man. He loves alone for at least a decade before we married so be had never looked to me to be his maid.

I'm working hard to ensure my 7 year old son Doran't grow up to treat women badly and I must admit it is not easy to counter the messages on society about men being superior. So I don't blame mothers for their sons. Or if I do I blame parents for their children.

I personally do compartmentalize people! But not into make and female. I go with people I trust/people I don't trust etc. A lot of new men I meet might be in the people I don't trust category until I feel I can! So I guess I am just cautious around people, especially males.

I don't blame all men fit rape.

I'm lucky I married a nice man. I know a lot women have had appalling relationships with men and it is not their fault.

I think the best thing is to get more aware of the issues and to look after yourself.

If your dp/dh is doing things you do not like, challenge him (if safe to do) and evaluate if this is the relationship you want.

I believe/know there are some good men out there and being single is always an option so you don't need to stay in a relationship that makes you unhappy.

Good luck

It's not just about family and sexual relationships though. It's about men in workplaces, on the street, in positions of decision-making power, etc.

Exactly - it's simply because we are female which is not our fault. It's completely unfair and out of our control. No matter what we do, it's still there.

See I have a fairly normal DP, he does listen to my rants, and a few days later it will become clear he's got it - but I still see his social conditioning to not feel any responsibility for keeping the house cleanish, or putting the kids to bed on time for instance.

I see this, and I tolerate it, because he is otherwise a nice bloke, albeit with some patriarchal habits.

I think it's different to other things - I feel no resentment to people who live in nicer houses because they're rich or who have better teeth, or nicer hair or get better treatment because they're native to the country or whatever - I see these things as the luck of the draw, but when it comes to sexism, I feel like it's stacked against me everywhere - like an extra burden, that no matter where I am, I have to shoulder - and the resentment isn't really that men don't have that burden, not even that they as part of society impose that burden, what really burns is that they refuse to even admit that burden exists.

@thebewilderness We all got the same general misogynist conditioning in our various cultures growing up.
Women who have unpacked, or are unpacking, that conditioning usually avoid men, unless they are in partnership with a man who has, or is, unpacking the conditioning.
Every culture on the planet is hostile to women and living in a hostile environment is exhausting for women. So we withdraw as much as we can if we can. This should come as no surprise.

Well said. Exactly this. You either delude yourself it's all fine, you made the "free choice" to do whatever it is that women are "coincidentally" doing the world over at a disadvantage to men, or you avoid men, or are one of the lucky few who find men able to unpack this conditioning (still hard work tho!)

Or as @madcatladyforever has done, choose the single life I know if DH and I ever break up, I won't bother again, as the risk/reward isn't worth it. I know what I like and what I need.

I agree AF. I'm in much the same position as lass but I don't think it's simple or easy to find / achieve that situation and much is down to luck.

You can make some conscious choices to better your odds (if you are privileged enough to have those choices!). For example - picking a man you'll always out earn, not having children with him, etc. Unfortunately not an option for many women (or ideal given that society needs to reproduce, or god forbid - you might want kids) and structurally society still rewards conformity to gender roles.

I'm now pregnant and despite a high powered job (I make 3-4x dh's earnings) and "feminist ally" husband, really starting to feel the asymmetry. If our careers were reversed, I'd find it very hard not to go down the path of least resistance and find myself dependent on him - like many women - and men enjoy the advantages of this setup most of the time. They hold the power and take it for granted, no matter how nice or well intentioned the individual men are.

I do find a particular subset of women just as difficult as men

Those priveliged women that can't understand that not every woman is privy to the same choices as they were. Who blame women's behaviour, not men's, for the vulnerable position
they are in.

This to me is true handmaiden territory.

Great post chickenpox.

Even if you don't maid for your DH presumably given the demands of your careers someone does - is the laundry, cleaning etc farmed out to another woman?

At no time was I was his maid. The fact you think you were your husband's maid has nothing to do with anything other than your personal relationship and that is for you and your partner to sort out.

Oh Lass you really do have a wonderfully Thatcherite way of individualising the collective if it’s not affecting you personally, don’t you?

But statistics are against you. Realistically women are far more likely to pick up the housework even when they work the same hours. And madcatlady was just evaluating her odds correctly.

But congrats on your perfect husband and high-flying job. I’m sure you’ve worked really hard for both.

The anger and resentment towards men is a normal response to discovering one's enslavement by systemic subjugation.

Waking up to the fact that one is a slave within an organised covert system of captivity, use and abuse would make any normal person ropable.

Work with the rage - and get it out of your body. Some dance it out, some use art, some box, some scream, some bake - just don't quietly seethe ;) the body will keep the score in that case.

And I only deal with guys who want to be part of the solution - the others - the himpathy crew who infantilise men

• get short shrift and none of my attention.

My relationship with my husband is relevant in the context of posters who seem to think it is impossible to have an equal relationship with their husband.

My husband would be gobsmacked by the idea that I was a maid to his career.

Do tell me what you think isn't "right" about my relationship with my husband?

Given I didn't take his name, drop my career , wash his laundry, iron his shirts and he is very supportive and proud of the fact I'm one of the leading lawyers in my specialism I'd like to know what you think isn't " right" in our relationship.

I am sorry. I was just answering the question about what NAMALT meant. Not directed at anyone except the person who asked the question.

At no time was I was his maid. The fact you think you were your husband's maid has nothing to do with anything other than your personal relationship and that is for you and your partner to sort out.

And yet for some reason you seem to think that your relationship with your husband is pertinent to all the threads you post about it on including this one.
That doesn't seem right.

I feel the same and after being married a few times and always being a maid to each one even though I am a high earning professional woman, I have decided to live alone. I am so much happier now. No more picking up someones pants and being pestered for sex that I don't want 24/7

I feel sorry for you. I am a high earning professional woman married to a high earning professional man. At the moment for the first time in 30 years rather than being his professional equal I now outrank him on earnings and professional standing.

At no time was I was his maid. The fact you think you were your husband's maid has nothing to do with anything other than your personal relationship and that is for you and your partner to sort out.

Sloth for me it was a bunch of people, and you are not being self-centred, you were self aware. That's how it came over.

Perhaps I’m being self-centred by thinking they’re aimed at ne. I just assumed as I mentioned NAMALT in my post!