No True Transwoman - transadvocates question whether TW is 'genuine' after said TW sexually harasses women in homeless shelter

This is a voice to listen to:
(from WPUK)
"I’m writing as a feminist who has devoted over two decades of my life to ending violence against women (VAW). I’ve worked in frontline services in both domestic abuse and sexual violence services across the country and now I head up a VAW sector charity.

I love my job, I am so lucky. It often surprises people when I say this, as they expect this type of work to be depressing, but that’s not how I look at services like ours at all.

The VAW sector supports women as they try to move away from abusive and violent perpetrators, working with survivors to break the silence that abusive perpetrators impose on them. There is nothing to compare to the moments when these women get their voices back and break free – and that’s why I love my job.

Unfortunately, in recent months the changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the incredibly toxic debate around the issue of ‘gender self ID’ has left many more women under a heavy veil of silence, particularly for those of us who work in the VAW sector. The dark, uncomfortable irony of this silence is not lost on me, nor is it lost on the many women in the sector I have recently spoken to about this issue.

As someone who has worked with many survivors of violence over the last two decades, I am terrified – both professionally and personally – about the impact of self ID on ensuring safe spaces are available to women who have experienced and are escaping male violence. Even without the legal changes to the GRA, gender inclusive policies are already happening in many areas, these changes are ahead of the law and already upon us. Moreover they do not appear to be slowing down... continues

womansplaceuk.org/the-silencing-of-feminists-silences-survivors/

and this is highlights exactly the point I made earlier. That those talking about 'case-by-case risk assesments' know nothing about how homeless services work or the people they support.

"Having worked with the homeless population since 2005, there is little that phases me. However, C-- was overly vulgar, crude, vile, and just downright disgusting, as he enjoyed talking about graphic sex acts he likes to do to other men. I happened to be working one Sunday when I suddenly thought about D-- and called her "

These are the women to listen to because they listen, have experience, expertise, understand and care. Its beyond outrageous that the woman D---- 's experience counts for so little.

So similar to those women in UK prison estates eh?

I have permission to share this story from a private FB group. I have removed the names - although I did verify this as a true story by finding him on some US prisoner look-up site (there were enough other details to work with). I can ask more questions (like, I assume this was some kind of supported accommodation). This is a quote btw, and pronouns as per the original.

I want to share more details about my homeless client who was murdered in November 2015. Her name was D-- and she was in her early 60's. She befriended an idividual in shelter in his 40's, who is a man named "C" that identifies as a woman. He had no surgical interventions and there was nothing 'feminine' about him. My job entails helping women in shelter find housing, then visiting them at least once a month until they are on their feet. D and C were neighbors and developed a close friendship. In fact, he was present when I went over safety planning with her. Having worked with the homeless population since 2005, there is little that phases me. However, C was overly vulgar, crude, vile, and just downright disgusting, as he enjoyed talking about graphic sex acts he likes to do to other men. I happened to be working one Sunday when I suddenly thought about D and called her. She did not answer and I considered going to her apartment, but decided not to. I found out the next day that she was BRUTALLY murdered by C about 45 minutes after I called her. I am told he stabbed her at least 7 times and slit her throat. Neighbors reported hearing her screaming and as she was dying, C stole her keys, locked the door, and went back to his apartment like nothing happened. There was no mention of any of it in the media and everything was swept under the rug...like she did not matter. Attaching his mugshot. Yes, he is serving a long sentence, but D-- is still dead and maybe she wouldn't be if a man had not been allowed into a woman's shelter.

So it can be a lot more than pervy behaviour, even more than sexual assault. These are the safeguards we are fighting to protect. So you pro-self-IDers can go shove it. Shower curtains stop nothing.

Just to go back to my repsonse to SMG's comment,
"It is when they have a duty of care to all their clients."

I replied:
There is a need for services for all people who are homeless. Individual ones are usually limited eg with a local connection, single homeless people who do not have statutory provision, young people, homeless people with additional needs eg drug and alcohol issues

Most services have historically evolved and become specialised in the support they provide in each facility. This has been good in so far that they are best able to meet the specific needs of their 'clients' or service users.

I would like to add SupermatchGame that in the article in the OP, it explains:
"Poverello House administrators tell Action News federal law says they have to treat a person identifying as a woman as a woman -- and there's no way to test whether it's true."

So what has happened is that a specialist service for adult women who are homeless has not evolved to meet the specific changing needs of its service users. Federal law has required them to do so and some trans women and possibly someone pretending to be a trans woman have wanted to use this service provision. The homeless shelter has been required by federal law to change its provision, to no longer be secifically for adult human females who are homeless.

I don't know anything about the scope of this charity's house, but I can assure you that there will have always been a number of restictions of eligibility. These will have been established to include a range of factors eg age, having young chldren with them, additional needs (drug, alcohol, health, previous stays etc. Women refused or not able to access the service will likely be signposted or referred elsewhere.

In the event that it becomes apparent (through monitoring) that additional services are needed due to unmet needs of its service users, a charity might decide to try to open another house with a different scope, subject to securing funding. A new project may be more specialist, with increased levels of staffing & resources. Alternatively, the local authority could be advised that it has a responsibility to do so or (as is often the case with homeless services) volunteers may start up a new project.

New projects which have service user involvement can be especially innovative.

I may be extremely naive but isn’t the issue, like most legislation, the exploitation
of loop holes? (Tax avoidance anyone?!)

The issues seems to me to be how do we identify and prevent men or women pretending to be the opposite gender for self gratification/ to harm others?

IMHO this is not the same as stopping self identification.

I personally (as a woman not in need of a a refuge from a specific individual) don’t believe there is a significant risk to allowing mtf transgender persons into ‘female ‘ only spaces - BUT I do expect the spaces to ensure adherence to behavioural rules eg no voyeurism in showers)

Out of interest- what happens now if the sister of an abusive Male accesses tbesame facility as the victim of an abusive Male?

"That's me in those tweets. The thread was pretty long and his statements were exploded over and over like an egg in a microwave. He blocked me later on so he could start making the same lies over again without being called on it."

I know Oldman. You do good work. I followed you until Twitter made it impossible for me.

But I didn't join to talk about my personal life (although issues discussed on here affect us all of course in one way or another)

It's just you seem a bit 'I have my safe spaces - I am alright Jack' about it. I think I've said this before about those that vehemently defend men's rights to access women's spaces on here. It is a common theme.

I don't mind you asking no. But I didn't join to talk about my personal life (although issues discussed on here affect us all of course in one way or another).

I already do have my own spaces thank you.

What spaces are those if you don't mind me asking?

It would be very problematic if people who were homeless were able to self-identify as being younger than they were, had a local connection that they didn't or a history of serving with the armed forces when they hadn't.

Lol extrapolated. Or did you exaggerate what I wrote to try and discredit me?

It's really not all about you.

It is when they have a duty of care to all their clients.

There is a need for services for all people who are homeless. Individual ones are usually limited eg with a local connection, single homeless people who do not have statutory provision, young people, homeless people with additional needs eg drug and alcohol issues

Most services have historically evolved and become specialised in the support they provide in each facility. This has been good in so far that they are best able to meet the specific needs of their 'clients' or service users.

Like, right angles. It's a sort of way of saying the two things aren't related.

What does orthogonal mean ?

Accept that, and women might come up with suggestions of how to campaign for your own spaces, SMG.

I already do have my own spaces thank you.

It's not the charity's problem to solve

It is when they have a duty of care to all their clients.

Not being trans enough means doing or saying something against the TRA dogma.

Not being true trans seems to mean:

You're making it up to gain access to opposite sex spaces,

You've done something that makes transgenderism look bad (eg this homeless shelter person or Ian Huntley)

Or you're a detransitioner.

They have all said "I am transgender" and they all get accused of being not true trans, so how is anyone supposed to know who is and who isn't truly transgender.

At least you can tell someone's sex and their sex is immutable so we should just stick with that when need be.

I don't actually need to have a point of view to point out that this is self-contradictory

My point is: TRA say no one will abuse it so it won't happen
It happens
TRA say it wasn't a true TW i.e. Someone was abusing it
Which is what we've been saying all along

How do you mean

Abusers being 'not true trans' is kind of the point.

I don't think whether someone has committed sexual abuse or not is any part of the definition of being trans. Any more than someone smoking should not be "true" trans or someone voting Labour isn't "true" trans. It's entirely orthogonal.

It's not the charity's problem to solve

You can use ligature resistant doors and doors that can be unlocked easily by staff from the outside

In a small homeless project run by a charity... any concept of how these type of projects are run or funded?

Holy fuck SMG just keep male bodied people out! Jesus we are back to asking HR for baskets of tampons. Keep men out. Find another way to solve your problem.

I normally ignore your comments, but accidentally read one.

I normally read yours. If I ignored comments that I disagreed with, disliked even, I wouldn't read 90% of the board. But I do. I think that's to my credit.

How about excluding all people with penises? Radical concept for sure!

When appropriate you can. As stated I was referring to the uk.