No True Transwoman - transadvocates question whether TW is 'genuine' after said TW sexually harasses women in homeless shelter

You don't get to define other people or their identities, only your own

Its going to be difficult for me to define my own identity when the terms 'sex' and 'woman' have been rendered meaningless.

There is so much black and white inflexible thinking here, it's so biased and reductive. No understanding of nuance and context. Just this dogmatic immunity to the complexities of human experience and behaviour.

I agree this is very complex behaviour we are dealing with. Reducing the word female to mean nothing in law is a dangerous dogma. We are not immune to this intention. We need to be inflexible in our position on this abuse of human rights.

Even these lovely ladies can't help but tell it like it is.

I hear you, @lovetheway. I, too, have Asperger's Syndrome.

For me, biology trumps feelings. As I have said before - I don't care who or what you identify as.

If your identity does not equal reality that is where I draw the line.

No understanding of nuance and context.

By the time a woman has gone through the nuances, wrestled with the context - she might well be dead.

Well done you.

I get define my boundaries. No one else does. And my boundaries say "no men in women's private spaces".

And surgery has fuck all to do with whether they are legally "female". Don't think that sleight of hand was missed.

And where they are legally female but not had surgery then there will be some female spaces that they could legitimately enter (toilets, some refuges with single room provision) and some that that it wouldn't (open changing rooms and showers).

There is so much black and white inflexible thinking here, it's so biased and reductive. No understanding of nuance and context. Just this dogmatic immunity to the complexities of human experience and behaviour.

Karen Adell Scot, a local transgender advocate, even offered to train Naomi's House employees on how to recognize people just pretending to identify as the opposite gender"

Ya see, this is why my Aspie tendencies get me into trouble - because to me, THEY ARE ALL PRETENDING TO BE WOMEN. Seriously, am I missing something here?

SMG is defending, supporting, arguing for and campaigning for male rights to enter female spaces.

You are very generous with my boundaries, SMG. However my consent is not in your gift.

I'm supporting the right of genuine trans women to enter female spaces. As are most of the country judging by this morning's Big Questions. You don't get to define other people or their identities, only your own. That is where your boundaries stop.

But sadly I don't get how this was all done so wrong. No person in the whole creation of this mess just said no we aren't quite going about this the right way. And I don't get why no-ones listening. People selling sliced cauliflower take more notice of the feedback.

Identity Politics was used as a weapon by the Left for too long and has now turned on its proponents. Society moved from a premise of individual rights to one of group rights, accusations of prejudice became the weapon of choice for anyone with a cause, it became possible to destroy a career or a business with the right tweet. Moral relativism is King and Queen and condemning anyone is seen as the worst possible behaviour (unless you're condemning them for judging others, in which case it's lauded to the heavens). Causing offence became a crime, both under law and under social rules. Universities and colleges teach that opinion is more important than fact because its useful to the ideology of most of the professors in this field. And once those things happened, exploiting it was easy. God help you if you suggested your morality or values were better than someone else's or tried to contradict their identity or tell them they weren't oppressed.

We on the Right call it "Cultural Marxism". It inevitably eats its parents. Those of us critical of it have been here all along. Usually being called bigots.

My opinion, FWIW.

It's being allowed to happen because most men andcwuiur s lot of women apparently want women back in their rightful and subservient place.

Transpeople exist, they just aren't the opposite sex.

It's like the end of humanity this forum. Fecking depressing.

lol maybe, but I think that for pretty much the opposite reason to you. And most of this forum is a light in the darkness of woke pomo bullshit.

I'm definitely not defending men's rights to access women's spaces. I think I've been quite clear about that

Deliberate falsity, pretending to use the actual meaning of the word 'men' when SMG has no meaning for the word 'men'.

SMG is defending, supporting, arguing for and campaigning for male rights to enter female spaces.

You are very generous with my boundaries, SMG. However my consent is not in your gift.

OlennasWimple

I'm afraid I just stole your point about gatekeepers for a tweet. But I'm reliably told that this is a form of flattery if that helps. :)

And surgery has fuck all to do with whether they are legally "female". Don't think that sleight of hand was missed.

Just chuckling at some of the penis signaling going on just up thread. So sad for second placers and all.

They only don't produce motile gametes because they have undergone surgery which means they have made a choice not to. It does not change their sex.

Are you suggesting that any person of the sex that produces motile gametes, but who is individually unable to produce motile gametes, is not male?

Have you changed your mind? A post op trans'woman is of the sex that produces motile gametes.

No. They don't produce motile gametes and they are legally female.

a post op trans woman doesn't produce motile gametes and could be legally male. So no. They are not male

You said that a person who is of the sex that produced motile gametes is male.

Have you changed your mind? A post op trans'woman is of the sex that produces motile gametes.

I would hope I wouldn't have to. Because I would expect that an experienced prison governor would be capable implementing risk assessments, applying the law appropriately, ensuring the safety of his/ her prisoners and generally be doing their job properly.

Perhaps there is a conflict between the law & ensuring the safety of prisoners and that is why they have spoken out?

Worth noting that like the Scottish prison sources, the women's refuge worker and the American homelessness worker that they all felt it necessary to remain anonymous.

It is concerning when people seem to want to do their job properly that they do not feel able to discuss their concerns openly.

This is especially an issue with regards professionals responsible for people who are vulnerable.

Or could also be called "gate keeping", that thing that TRAs want to do away with, when it involves a medical professional suggesting that transition is not going to be helpful to an individual hmm

An excellent point, excellently put! 🍺

Perhaps you could reassure the prison governor quoted in the Daily Mail

R0wantrees I would hope I wouldn't have to. Because I would expect that an experienced prison governor would be capable implementing risk assessments, applying the law appropriately, ensuring the safety of his/ her prisoners and generally be doing their job properly.

& so to repost an important comment:
(from WPUK)
"I’m writing as a feminist who has devoted over two decades of my life to ending violence against women (VAW). I’ve worked in frontline services in both domestic abuse and sexual violence services across the country and now I head up a VAW sector charity.

I love my job, I am so lucky. It often surprises people when I say this, as they expect this type of work to be depressing, but that’s not how I look at services like ours at all.

The VAW sector supports women as they try to move away from abusive and violent perpetrators, working with survivors to break the silence that abusive perpetrators impose on them. There is nothing to compare to the moments when these women get their voices back and break free – and that’s why I love my job.

Unfortunately, in recent months the changes to the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the incredibly toxic debate around the issue of ‘gender self ID’ has left many more women under a heavy veil of silence, particularly for those of us who work in the VAW sector. The dark, uncomfortable irony of this silence is not lost on me, nor is it lost on the many women in the sector I have recently spoken to about this issue.

As someone who has worked with many survivors of violence over the last two decades, I am terrified – both professionally and personally – about the impact of self ID on ensuring safe spaces are available to women who have experienced and are escaping male violence. Even without the legal changes to the GRA, gender inclusive policies are already happening in many areas, these changes are ahead of the law and already upon us. Moreover they do not appear to be slowing down... continues

womansplaceuk.org/the-silencing-of-feminists-silences-survivors/