How do we scourge out racism and classism in feminism?

flash I get that. I dgaf if white people are criticised as a group. I am familiar with all the bullshit of namalt and of course white people as a group benefit from inequality, etc.

However that does not mean you are not above reproach for being a misogynist.

Anyone remember this? Seems apt in this circumstance. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/08/how-white-women-use-strategic-tears-to-avoid-accountability

I'm done with deference towards upholders of Patriarchal religion, misogynists and anti-feminists in the name of inclusion.

I think it’s very similar to the NSPCC campaigning on ‘end child abuse’.

I seriously doubt we will ever end child abuse.

I seriously doubt we will ever end ‘isms/‘phobias.

The important thing is structuring society (feminism) to reduce the prevalence and the harm suffered as a result.

It’s silly IMO to pretend we can ever eradicate negative beliefs/behaviours from humanity (feminism).

Too fucking right it's hit a nerve.

Taco the title is far more strongly worded than that. Perhaps you don't sense it because you believe you are above reproach in your wokeness.

If you find the title offensive maybe it's hit a nerve?

Uh the title is not saying feminists are racist and classist. It is pointing out that there is racism and classism within feminist movements and is asking how we can stop it.

"how can we ensure that our Feminism benefits ALL women, regardless of class and ethnicity?"

That is a very gentle interpretation of labelling feminists as classist and racist and needing a whip to train them out of it.

Permission I read it as saying, "how can we ensure that our Feminism benefits ALL women, regardless of class and ethnicity?". I don't think it's about eliminating classism and racism in society really.

Caveat; of course it is rare that anyone neatly fits into one ideological box.

‘Woman is a political class’ (not a biological one) is a Marxist feminist position not a radical feminist position.

way to go suggesting that the white, educated women are the ones fighting the patriarchy and all the other women are just making it hard for them, bleeting on about their race and class issues within feminism

Of course I didn't mean that. There are feminists fighting Patriarchy in all cultures and from all ethnic heritages. I'm specifically speaking about the breed of youngish pomo misogynist twats who obsess about 'White Middle-Class Feminism'.

Isn't the inference simply that racism and classism exist within feminism (just as they do everywhere) and what do we do about it?

No. That title would read "How can feminism lead the way in scourging out racism and classism from society" or something similar.

To go back to something that was touched on earlier:

The problem I have with the practice of "calling out" is that it seems to be increasingly used as a power play in left wing circles. So person A innocently makes a comment that could be interpreted as 'problematic' and gets called out. Person A then basically has two options: offer a grovelling repentance, or stick to their guns and be labelled a bigot and find themselves marginalised. So calling out effectively carries the subtext of 'submit or be shunned'.

Meanwhile the person doing the calling out can bask in the enhanced status of having demonstrated to the crowd how "woke" they are, so there's a strong incentive to "call out" even at the slightest perceived infraction.

It makes it hard to have any kind of good faith discussion.

The inference is that feminists are stuck-up, white, middle-class racists and there is a desperate need to whip them into 'wokeness'.

Is that the inference? Would there be the same inference if one said, "how do we scourge out child sexual exploitation from overseas aid charities"? Isn't the inference simply that racism and classism exist within feminism (just as they do everywhere) and what do we do about it?

Women are the easy target and putting them on the back foot for the crime of having white skin, or god forbid an education, is far more gratifying than the uphill strughle of fighting Patriarchy.

I think women discussing amongst themselves how to fight the patriarchy for the good of all women - regardless of race and class - is in no way synonomous with putting women on the back foot for the crimes of having white skin and an education. But way to go suggesting that the white, educated women are the ones fighting the patriarchy and all the other women are just making it hard for them, bleeting on about their race and class issues within feminism.

But I'm sure that isn't what you meant.

I thought Ahmed was a queer theorist/pomo.

She is. And also utterly impenetrable, as you'd expect.

"How do we scourge out racism and classism in feminism?"

The inference is that feminists are stuck-up, white, middle-class racists and there is a desperate need to whip them into 'wokeness'.

Feminists are far more self policing about classism and racism ime than any other group I am involved in. They do not need whipping into shape, in fact I think intersectional feminists need to do some self-examination about the misogyny inherent in their obsession about what women say and do, not what the actual men in positions of power do. Women are the easy target and putting them on the back foot for the crime of having white skin, or god forbid an education, is far more gratifying than the uphill strughle of fighting Patriarchy.

McKinnon is surely more accurately described as a marxist feminist and Ahmed as a liberal feminist?

Catharine MacKinnon is definitely a radical feminist. Ahmed more liberal.

I thought Ahmed was a queer theorist/pomo.

oncenturyavenue.org/2015/03/harm-is-harm-hello/

Although reading this recent piece, I wouldn't be so sure that she would definitely not agree with self-ID. This is from 2015 and she says "I aggressively don't care" about the bathroom question. And she is here referring to transgender, not her previous considerations of transsexuals.

Can this one not be about the impact of race and class on women instead

YY, let's revert following detour.

McKinnon is surely more accurately described as a marxist feminist and Ahmed as a liberal feminist?

Radical feminism and marxist feminism both seeking radical change but rad fems treating the source as gender and Marxists feminists treating it as capitalism...

True Joan and I have met her too! No, I don't believe she has written anything specifically on self-ID to be fair. Sara Ahmed's work is more recent though. Idk, the thread is about race and class, I just picked up on Rat's point that radical feminism is not inherently incompatible with a degree of trans inclusion.