How do we scourge out racism and classism in feminism?

Quite right Mist. In Geordieland anyone with a pet lip is sulking.

It's an old Northern saying about sulking.

When bairns (children) shove their bottom lip out after being stopped from doing something naughty, or nice to them obviously.

You then get told off for having your pet lip out.

Stick*

Pet lip means stock your bottom lip out - i think...so sulky. In Newcastle someone said sulky feminist??

I guess it's relevant in that what we think of as polite "middle English" is actually an exclusive dialect that not all of us are brought up with. Even when English is our first language, we dont necessary speak the same English.

And of course for many English is not their first language. That's relevant to how we can talk about race and class in open and inclusive ways.

Picasssos... got your pet lip out

Unfamiliar term, for me - and I have my own UK dialect to contend with!

What does it mean?
Ta!

I've never heard 'pet lip' Picassos, what does it mean? I'm guessing it's similar to 'talking proper'?

Relevance to thread?

I really enjoyed a tweet about the Newcastle meeting where some one had a shout at us in proper geordie, saying all you feminists have got your pet lip out.

Haven't heard that for years.

Agree with Picklemepopcorn

It is a fact that 'polite discussion' is done in a middle class vocabulary and tone that can be very exclusive.

Yes, it is.

Yes Picassos, I have known people from very similar backgrounds (also refugees here from that time) who had shocking opinions about modern day refugees. They still had a lot to offer in terms of recounting history and their experiences, they just didnt join those dots.

Its a funny old thing racism. My now dead FIL was a refugee from Poland, spent years in two concentration camps. A victim of an horrendous racist. His whole family murdered.

He refused point blank to vote for anyone not white.

It needs politely pointing out whenever we see it, and honest reflection as to whether we are doing it.

I am not classist or racist, but I undoubtedly say insensitive ignorant things because of privilege. I need someone to tell me if I step out of line, and I need to accept that maybe I am out of order and need to change.

It is a fact that 'polite discussion' is done in a middle class vocabulary and tone that can be very exclusive. I mean that is partly the point of it isn't it, to be exclusive. That can include accents (West Country here) but extends beyond voices to clothes (who looks the part), available cash (e.g. the cost of attending conferences where networking is done and ideas are shared), jobs (management class vs worker, who is involved in decision making, internships) etc, contacts (esp through family and family friends). I don't think middle class women should be singled out but I don't think it can be denied that even in discussion of class and race, white and middle class voices are way more likely to be heard than BME and working class voices.

spontaneousgiventime

We do.

I do talk like Cheryl Cole and am proud of being a northerner. I am seen as middle class while I reject the label and see myself as working class. My family were all working class and while there is only my sister and I left now we are proud of our parents and proud of our roots. She like me growls at the idea of being middle class.

We need to get rid of the class system in this country, it's an anachronism and pushes people down then labels them.

Middle class is a strange term to use now. I was born in a very poor family in the North East, and my education was shite. However, through being a cheeky fucker I’ve managed to get on and now work with the privately educated largely, although lots of people do share their working class credibility. I guess for all intents and purposes I appear middle class, but it’s learned behaviour, if I talked the way my family do I would sound like Cheryl Cole. I have simply absorbed the trappings of a metropolitan London life.

I haven’t lost my understanding of my background in poverty and difficulty and my family still live it, close family. I still loathe the precariat nature of work enforced on the working class that I grew up with and I see getting worse. I really want to do something about it and I have and do when the situation arises. But I’m a privileged white feminist. Can I speak about it here? I may sound too posh and knowledgeable and accidentally offend with my privilege as it has become a stick we must beat ourselves with. I know a lot of women like this. We still have our roots.

I don't think it's specifically middle class women that need calling out. I've not noticed their voices being particularly paid attention to either, in the great scheme of things.

I think active listening is a really good start.

People seem to hate the word privilege but it's there in different ways. In terms of living up to expectations I think middle class white women have pressures that go unchecked and they don't even see the system at play in that. I have no idea if that's accurate btw its just something I've witnessed as an outsider.

Part of me wants to ask 'why don't you like us?' To the middle class white feminists but tbh I just think class/race/religion creates this natural ingrained superiority and they don't even notice they don't like what's not them.

@peakpants, yes totally agree

Treesy I'm not saying that middle class women shouldn't be included in the discussion just pointing out some of the groups who are usually excluded.

"But I don't think we should be passive? Why are we relying on the labour of others to point out problems they face, that we cause? "

This. It always amazes me when a group so good at seeing structural inequality when it comes to one issue can be so blind to it in other issues.