How do we scourge out racism and classism in feminism?

I honestly was not referring to your post. It was the OP of that thread who said it was irrelevant actually.

Not at all. She has lied about what I said and what other posters said.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3264750-Let-a-Woman-Speak-in-Truro-9-June

Here it is Taco

Also PeakPants I can't find the Cornwall thread, is there a chance you could link it?

Yeah picassospaintbrush you have just proved PeakPants' point there.

Picasso and that last post from you shows what the problem is. Deconstructing, minimising, denying, picking on individual words. Maybe people can read the posts by mamaoya and the responses they got and decide for themselves. Broadly, the issue is that white feminists deny there is a problem.

PeakPants

The response is that “it's irrelevant,” that the movement 'needs the Daily Mail vote',
You have added the words “it's irrelevant” to change the meaning of that. Deliberately.

that comments made by speakers that seem to exclude marginalised groups are not important because this is a single-issue debate.
You have added the words “not important” to change the meaning of that. Deliberately.

This is clear evidence of only thinking about it from a white heterosexual viewpoint.
In your opinion.

They cannot see the issue because for them it doesn't exist.
In your opinion.

They feel welcome, so they cannot understand how anyone would feel unwelcome.
In your opinion.

It just requires some empathy.(*
Give it a rest.

👏 yes peakpants

Check out Mamaoya's posts she's a

What do you think us as white middle class feminists should actually do? I have enough going on fighting for my own bit of space and acceptance.

Listen to the views of those who are not white, middle-class and heterosexual. You don't need to 'do' anything. There is a perfect example of that on the Cornwall thread. A poster has eloquently explained how exclusionary comments make her feel unwelcome at a meeting. The response is that it's irrelevant, that the movement 'needs the Daily Mail vote', that comments made by speakers that seem to exclude marginalised groups are not important because this is a single-issue debate. This is clear evidence of only thinking about it from a white heterosexual viewpoint. They cannot see the issue because for them it doesn't exist. They feel welcome, so they cannot understand how anyone would feel unwelcome. It just requires some empathy.

Abusive? Okay good to know.

What do you think us as white middle class feminists should actually do? I have enough going on fighting for my own bit of space and acceptance.

What about the women who reject feminism or see it as irrelevant to them - in particular, the theoretical navel-gazing of it all? If they work for the benefit of other women, are they feminist enough for a movement that puts more emphasis on policing itself than anything else? Is the very act of policing anti-feminist? As here:

I am writing to you to tell you a story about the three greatest feminists I ever knew. One was my mother in law, she was upper middle class and during World War 2 she worked in London, when she was left a widow with young children, she went to work even though her upper middle class peers disapproved, she campaigned for single parents throughout her life. You wouldn’t have liked her, she thought feminism was nonsense even though every moment of her life she could, she worked for the benefit of other women while breaking the mould and heading her own household. The second was a woman on an estate I lived on, she was built like a brick shithouse, was racist, obnoxious. Whenever she heard a bloke on that estate had battered his missus, she kicked shit out of him. She didn’t understand why I thought she was a feminist, and she thought it was nonsense but there was no domestic abuse on any estate she lived on. The third is a woman called Shagufta, a mother of several children, forced into marriage at 14, she stayed married to till she died and loved the man she was forced to marry. I watched her march into the house of a pimp holding two teenage girls and drag them out, while he stood terrified. She wouldn’t have understood a word you said but spent her life working for the benefit of other women.

idgeofreason.wordpress.com/2017/01/14/dear-laurie-penny/

(I don't have an answer: just putting out there as a discussion point.)

Sorry, should have said

instead of pushing those survivors, people who come from a culture where FGM is practiced, to the forefront of campaigns, focus groups, meetings etc

I am from a working class background, and in terms of racism, I think 'shunning' those who hold distasteful, prejudiced, derogatory etc views, does far more harm than good. What happens is they are pushed together, there is comraderie and unity in declaring 'immigrants take all our jobs' for example. Being shunned for these opinions reinforces them.

What is needed, I think, is to at least attempt to see where these views are coming from, and find 'gentler' ways of disproving them rather than just labelling them a racist bigot and shutting it down.

With specific reference to racism in feminism, I think it is often more nuanced than the typical anti immigrant type of racism most think of when they consider racism. I think it is more ingrained, and often not conscious racism if that makes sense. So you have white women championing anti FGM laws vehemently, who end up shutting out FGM survivors and taking over as it were, instead of pushing those survivors, people who come from a culture where FGM is practiced, because they inherently feel they know better, can campaign better, can explain it better.

To stamp that out is more difficult, and takes real soul searching from individuals.

I found it very calming and less guilt-ridden once I accepted that.

I think that's the only way forward. I shall shut up now and leave others to talk on the issues that directly impact their lives.

You were correct the first time, affect.

No, you can’t win, but supporting others from those sections of society who speak out is the most useful IMO. I don’t think we can solve those issues ourselves, as white m/c, nor should we be trying to take the lead.

Maybe I mean effect, sorry.

I feel that I can't win. If I speak up on issues that affect black and poor women then I'm talking over them, patronising them, or making it all about me.

If I keep my gob shut on matters that don't affect me I'm blind, arrogant, selfish etc.

Online feminist forums like this should help reduce racism as you can't tell what colour someone is and you respond to what people are saying not how they looks. You also can't tell what sort of accent someone has apart from the odd local word or phrase.
You get an idea of educational level and spelling ability but that's different to what class you are.
I think most people have to work to ensure they aren't discriminated against and let others do the same. Trying to speak for other people in your idea of their best interests isn't the answer.

MorrisZapp you don't have to do anything. The problem only starts when people deny that their privilege exists.