How do we scourge out racism and classism in feminism?

To be clearer - I'm not saying we should wash dirty linen in private - I'm saying this was poorly handled and that is an issue that needs to be dealt with in itself - the social worker/professional class looking to bolster their own reputation against other women's instead of talking and persuading.

LangCleg

Very well put.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/race-discrimination

Relevant to the thread, explains indirect and direct racism, also describes victimization when someone points out racism. Article is more employment based but is also covers those who are using a service.

yet thousands of politically unsavvy WC people. People who aren't racist but don't always word things correctly

Back to this because I see it too and it ties into what Joan is saying.

Most working class people aren't racist. What they often lack - if you could even describe it as a lack - is performative wokeness. Plain speaking is held as a virtue, not a vice. Woketopian efforts to educate are perceived as posh people issuing authoritarian commandments and therefore rejected. What is needed is exposure to one another so that people can translate and understand the intent behind different modes of speaking and discourse.

(If the woke left had realised this two years ago, the country might not have voted for Brexit.)

Thank you Joan, and yy Italian

Just like men don't see sexism, some people can't see racism. Quelle surprise

@JoanSummers excellent post.

I think that maybe some people are using these ideas to break us down from the inside out. We can oppose racism and self id, and want equal rights/opportunities for all women, working class, women of colour etc.

I guess I will try to explain where I'm coming from.

I live on a sink estate. I know plenty of people who actually are racist, sexist, homophobic and arseholes in general. I also know plenty of women who struggle; one works a physical job when she is ill enough that she should be on ESA - but her husband won't let her quit, I know women raising disabled kids on very little money because the dad buggered off, women who have relocated from the other end of the country to escape violence, women in relationships with current open DV, women whose partners are in prison. I know people who have been on Jeremy Kyle!

Yes of course it is possible for feminists to come from this - I know there are many prominent feminists with tough backgrounds - but many women are struggling just to live. To wake up and drudge through another day. Feminism is for these women too, so I'm trying to consider how to appeal to them.

See, that phrasing there ^ is bollocks!

I will have a think and try again.

You are right, navel gaze was a poor choice of words. I chose it without thinking as it got my meaning across easiest, but it isn't really what I mean. It's hard to put into words.

I assure you that women living in poverty are not too busy to notice and speak against racism and misogyny

Dear bewilderness. You are a star here on earth.

More on this manana.

They are underrepresented in feminism and in politics, as they are too busy with life to have time to navel gaze.

Srsly? You are on the FWR and you bring the Feminists are dilettantes and privileged navel gazers?
I assure you that women living in poverty are not too busy to notice and speak against racism and misogyny

Isn't it Marxism that says the goverment blame or infer blame of the working class problems on to immigration even when the immigration happened decades ago?

The working class have been taught and shown over decades to blame problems on PoC and "foreigners".

Anyway that's just my off to bed thought.

The inequality of income distribution is the focus I am pointing at.

The failure of unions to understand what is happening, the lack of access to homes that is dependent on income. This is driven by the comfort zone people, get into when they are well paid. They forget (the working class that rose) or they never knew (the privately educated).

I am not blind to any prejudice. My eyes are wide open.

www.google.ca/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-police-racism-racial-inequality-bme-black-stop-and-search-prisons-graphs-statistics-revealed-a7197066.html%3famp

Race intersects with class - so all of those concerns about low wages, no benefits, unemployment etc. most particularly affect “minorities.” We can’t discuss race without class, and we can’t discuss class without race!

I have shared my experience of my struggle to release myself from religious oppression which I went thorough in the previous century.

Well no, obviously from my post above yours I don't think the huge numbers of women (and men) dependent on insecure wages, or zero hours contracts and a benefits system that treats them like pariahs is funny. I know it is a shocking abuse of human dignity and it has deteriorated post the Gordon Brown era of income distribution via the tax credit system he set up.

Funny how the thread title is explicitly about racism and classism but you’ve decided that anyone speaking about racism is off topic, and oppression theorist, and exercising privilege.

Can we get this thread back onto a conversation about class in feminism. If peakpants and the band of merry oppression theorists burst their arses in we can ask them to tell us how privileged they are and to stand back in line with their rules.

I had a rant last night about how I meet many women now who were working class, now comfy and are being paid well, bonuses etc. On the back of cut down wages, terrible contracts and insecure work. This is what we could talk about. Why are those of us that have clambered up the greasy pole not working on this?
I want to know. I want to hear? Tell me.

Im under class i still kinda get what racism is and when i dont I listen.

yet thousands of politically unsavvy WC people. People who aren't racist but don't always word things correctly

I worry about this. Because it alienates people before they even begin, when a bit of exposure to anti-racist spaces instead of instant condemnation would probably do wonders for both understanding and the way to go about speaking on such topics. Showing is better than telling. The actually racist people will show up, not like what they find and bugger off anyway, of their own accord.