Examples of transgender males in male roles

Chris Mosier competed in triatholon as a female in 2009. Transitioned in 2010. He challenged IOC policy on transgender participation in 2015. This led to the change in the IOC guidelines. This enabled him to take part in the 2016 Duothalon championship in Avile in the male 35-39 AG sprint. He came 28th out of 47 finishers.

I'm wondering what male roles or sporting spaces Chaz Bono has taken? They are famous and well known for being a trans man, but I don't think they've taken a position/role/job/place that would usually just be for men. I know they did a dancing TV show in the US but that was a mixed competition anyway.

Cher's child

Well this thread is going well,
is there any examples. of trans men in prominent places,
yes here's a load of them

Er NO. The OP asked about transmen in men's roles. To quote: "Are there any examples of females that have transitioned into males holding male posts, accessing male spaces or entering male sports contexts etc as men?"

We then got an avalanche of example from WAKAME of transmen in jobs that have been and are done by men and women. Transmen don't take men's jobs.

I think the difference between trans men and trans women is quite interesting. Trans men seem to be engaged in living socially useful lives as a whole, science, military whatever. They seem to be content to just be. Trans women on the other hand seem to be in desperate need of validation, being a 'real' woman. That tends to mean a view of women as a 'performance' a demand for applause . They have a male view of what a woman is, trans men view men like women i.e. human.
This is a huge generalisation.

Well this thread is going well,
is there any examples. of trans men in prominent places,
yes here's a load of them.
oh never mind then back to trans woman. lol

I do wonder if trans men ever come on here and jus think sod that for a game of marbles.

shouldn't go to the toilet

I'm sorry, I thought you had. But there are an awful lot of posts on MN that do say trans women (aka "TIMs" in TERFspeak) should be banned from toilets and changing rooms (aka "safe spaces" in TERFspeak) so I may have been confusing you with any of the other dozen or so people who post similar stuff

No, nobody asserts that transpeople should go to the toilet, take part in sports, get married, have childrem etc etc.

And contrary to what WAKAME seems to think (judging by the list of jobs transmen have she's listed), does anyone think that transpeople shouldn't have jobs.

Sorry, missed a page

Another list of people doing jobs

WAKAME

Interesting list

However, Clinical Psychology is not a sex-segregated profession
Women are also allowed in the military in the US
And, luckily, woman are also allowed to write books, and practise the Law. And sometimes hold positions of power in National Organisations.

So I think you've missed the point

A more interesting question would be whether those people would have become quite so eminent if they'd remained women. In which case you list demonstrates another point admirably. Women who pass as men do as well as men do

There was a question about competitive sports. The Olympic committee guidelines at IOC state the following:

1. Those who transition from female to male are eligible to compete in the male category without restriction.

1. Those who transition from male to female are eligible to compete in the female category under the following conditions:

2.1. The athlete has declared that her gender identity is female. The
declaration cannot be changed, for sporting purposes, for a minimum
of four years.
2.2. The athlete must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to her first
competition (with the requirement for any longer period to be based on
a confidential case-by-case evaluation, considering whether or not 12
months is a sufficient length of time to minimize any advantage in
women’s competition)
2.3. The athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the
female category.
2.4. Compliance with these conditions may be monitored by testing. In the event of non-compliance, the athlete’s eligibility for female competition will be suspended for 12 months.

These guidelines removed the previous requirement to have gender reassignment surgery. Instead testosterone level below 10 nanomol per litre for one year at least as the qualification for competing in women's events.

Yes a lot of people don't want male bodies in female areas, and they are basing that on sex because it is sex discrimination that they have faced. Male bodied people often treat women as objects as do many of the trans community unfortunately. And this differentiation based on sex is consistent with the equality act.

But if you feel that is limiting your ability to live life fully, that there is a shortage of suitable loos/changing areas etc then I would happily join your campaign to increase the available of suitable facilities. I would guess gender neutral spaces suitable for 1 person or a person with small children would make most sense given the relatively low numbers of transpeople, although they may well be used by anyone?

Is there a petition or something? Template letters to MPs?

I think the issue is that loos are generally segregated by sex, not gender-identity.

Loos should be segregated by sex and not by gender. That is the crux of the matter.

@I really can't be bothered to waste my time copying evidence that you will simply ignore

Ah. The classic 'I can't provide the evidence' evasive technique. You can't provide the evidence because it isn't there.

Of course, if you are NOT trying to exclude people like me from gender-appropriate loos and changing rooms, then I am sorry for maligning you.

I think the issue is that loos are generally segregated by sex, not gender-identity.

TerfsUp
Again, show the posts that claim that You want to screw up the Equality Act, and have us banned from toilets and changing rooms
I really can't be bothered to waste my time copying evidence that you will simply ignore. You know they are there, and I am pretty certain that you are another of those who has posted them. Just think back -- have you ever used the term "safe space" or claimed that self ID will let men into them?
If so, you are misrepresenting the law. And if you are trying to get people who you think might be trans banned from them because you don't think they look female enough, then you are trying to cut back our rights under the 2010 Act.
Of course, if you are NOT trying to exclude people like me from gender-appropriate loos and changing rooms, then I am sorry for maligning you. I must have been confusing you with someone else.

@Damnthatonestakentryanother2. Again, show the posts that claim that You want to screw up the Equality Act, and have us banned from toilets and changing rooms.

The point about stonewall is that they consider cross dressers to be trans. That's the point of their trans umbrella, so what they're campaigning for is equally for cross dressers as for transgender people

Yes. This is accurate.

@Damnthatonestakentryanother2: you ignored my original post so I will repeat it:

Show me posts where MNs have written that transpeople should urinate or defecate in the street rather than use a public toilet or go unclothed rather than buy clothing. Shouldn't be difficult, as you claim that it is a "recurring theme".

It's really bizarre that you decided to make a specific accusation against a specific user like you knew what you were referring to. I'm not sure I really want to continue to respond to you, but whatever.

The point about stonewall is that they consider cross dressers to be trans. That's the point of their trans umbrella, so what they're campaigning for is equally for cross dressers as for transgender people.

Er no. Stop wilfully misunderstanding people. Many women think that trans identified males should not access female spaces including toilets and changing rooms. Not that they should be banned from using any toilets and changing rooms. Third spaces are the way to go.

AssassinatedBeauty
I'm quite sure I haven't posted about wanting to ban transwomen from toilets or from changing rooms.
I'm sorry, I thought you had. But there are an awful lot of posts on MN that do say trans women (aka "TIMs" in TERFspeak) should be banned from toilets and changing rooms (aka "safe spaces" in TERFspeak) so I may have been confusing you with any of the other dozen or so people who post similar stuff.

TerfsUp
We are and we do.
Repeating a falsehood doesn't make it true. It just makes it more obvious that it was deliberate.
I am female; don't you dare try to tell me what my experience of being female is.
I never have and never would. But don't you dare to tell me what my experience of being a trans woman is, either. I am sick to death of hatred that is being deliberately stirred up against people like me by TERFs and their religious / far right allies. (I presume it's OK to use TERF now, as you've included it in your username — just in case there was any doubt?)

Brains are biology
Good. Glad we got that sorted out.

Stonewall considers cross-dressers and transsexuals to be under the same umbrella. Glad we agree on this pointy.
I consider cis men, trans men, trans women and cis women to be under the same umbrella. It's called "human".