Anti-vaccination, women’s right and trans - an analogy?

And I don't think that anyone vaccinates their child to protect other children.

Pratchett, you speak for you, but more eloquently

Like the anti-vax movement (and also climate deniers), the TRAs are able to influence the media to a degree completely out of proportion to their numbers

Could you point me, OP, to one, just one, mainstream media article or programme in the last ten years that promotes non-vaccination?

Quixote there have been a lot of pay-outs for vaccine damage. The USA, UK and Ireland, to name but a few, have funds set aside for it.

Pratchet, if you or anyone else has any questions about vaccines your GP or practice nurse will be happy to answer them. The NHS runs a huge public information campaign with the scientifically known fact explained.

What do you think scientists and researchers should have done to engage with the public that they haven’t done? How do you have a ‘debate’ when he collateral damage while it’s being sorted out will be many more preventable cases of illness and, yes, desths?

Another parallel I can see with the trans movement is Pomo hyper-individualism. Vaccination works on a population level so it relies on people understanding that while they’re certainly protecting their own child, they’re all the more so protecting a vulnerable child or person in the community, and the community as a whole. And giving a shit about other people. The trans movement, like the anti vaxxers, is all about me, my identity, what I think (who cares about science?) and who I am (who cares about the rest of the community?).

You do not know that. You have been told that and because you respect the source, you believe it. Some people listen to mothers: doctors are not always their biggest fans.

Robert Fletcher
Hannah Poling

Pratchet, you're right, I know nothing about the particular person in question. What I know is that there has not been one single documented case of vaccines causing neurological symptoms of that permanence and magnitude. Many people think there's a connection because of the general timing of the appearance of symptoms, but studies have all (so far) shown that vaccines are not the cause. The cause may be unknown, but research does not show any of the markers you would expect if a vaccine caused the problem. (For instance, the massive vaccine-induced but unregulated immune response you'd have to see that affected the neurons.)

So, though I know nothing about the young man involved, I do know that it's beyond unlikely that his body did react that way and yet all the doctors missed it.

Pro vaccinationists have definitely won.

You don't have to respond to the arguments for and against. I didn't. I referenced the parallels. I hoped you might respond.

You aren't consciously using tactics but you are using tactics. You've dismissed everything that's been said as bunfighting on a stupid thread. That's a tactic.

Seriously, suggesting that anyone questioning your view is bunfighting is really not good. Can't you see you're using the same tactics?

I see no bunfight - I see 'I want to talk about vaccination so long as my views aren't questioned'.

This is what I see from transactivism too, and it worries me that that side won.

What does that mean reality? You and I both agree and disagree (I think) I hope you don’t mean that it’s better not to show there are grey areas where people on both sides might meet.

Critical thinking isn't really 'assessing evidence', or just 'assessing evidence'. Most of the feminists here are incredibly able to drill down into the bones of a argument or a methodology, and find the glitches, presumption and flaws.

Will be interesting to see if op comes back and what they make of the opposite of what they thought being often expressed here

Perhaps.
But if it’s about assessing evidence I honestly think it will be difficult to defend an antivax position- and I think anecdotal evidence is still evidence but at a very early stage. To the mother here whose child regressed- I’m so sorry. I’m honestly not wanting to criticise you.
Understanding analogy without thinking it is strawmanning or sealioning etc I think is a problem on this board. (It’s true I only vaguely understand what sealioning is). I don’t think this shows real critical thinking.

Well, perhaps the ability to think critically is one of those things you need to have yourself in order to recognise it in others.

You said it was about threats of violence.

I said it was about actively promoting a particular type of ideology re trans rights.

The ideology of TRA is a particular set of beliefs. If people promote them, especially if they are goady then they will be likely be seen as a TRA...

Just like with MRAs...

Pratchet I don’t. But perhaps I would if I had your definition of feminist.

but what does that actually mean and how do you decide who is one unless they say they are? People here are accused of being tras and I’ve never seen threats of violence or anything close here (would obviously condemn to the hills if I did)

Far from: how patronising. The shared quality I see between feminists and vaccine questioners is critical thinking.

Quixote: you know nothing of MrsDilber's son's medical history and nothing about her son. You are not on a position to be giving reassurances. You cannot possibly know.

(Activists for a particular type of ideology re trans issues, like the MRAs are activists for a particular type of ideology re issues affecting men.)

TRAs are the activists like the distinction between MRAs and men generally.

Op I assume we don’t agree re trans issues but do agree re vaccinations. I imagine that there are a higher proportion of antivaxxers on the extremes of both sides of the debate because both will have a higher proportion than average of people who have felt hurt and don’t trust the main societal structures we have to look after us.

As an aside what on Earth is meant by tra? Is it just the people who are cited on here as making repulsive threats online or is it meant to include the many of us who argue against the tide on here?